Extradimensional Spaces within Extradimensional Spaces? Always dangerous or not?

[AFGNCAAP]

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I figured this would be the best place to ask. I've searched the 3.5 D&D FAQ for an answer, but I haven't had any luck.

Does placing any item that creates/uses an extradimensional space within another similar item cause a rupture to the Astral plane/destroy the item? Would placing a quiver of Ehlonna within a Heward's handy haversack be just as disasterous as putting a bag of holding in a portable hole?

The reason why I ask is because there are numerous Hammerspace items of the sort in D&D, and the only rules that I've come across where placing one such item into another is bad relates only to a bag of holding and a portable hole.

Also, what about item that continuously/repeatedly generate items, like an everfull mug or everlasting rations (from the Magic Item Compendium)?

I'd appreciate any info/advice/links/etc. you could provide.

 

[frankthedm]

It is supposed to be dangerous. The rules don't support that as much as they used to sadly. The bag of holding in a portable hole is a good example of how to handle that. A less harsh way of handling it is the one hammerspace won't enter another hammerspace, repelling one another like two magnets of the same polarity.

 

[robberbaron]

Don't see a problem putting a Decanter of Endless Water in a Portable Hole (I assume it continuously creates water, rather than drawing it from somewhere else) but, definitely, anything that is/contains an intra/interdimensional space going inside any other i/id space = BOOOOOOM!

 

[shilsen]

The FAQ (3.0) response on this subject was:

It’s a general rule that you can’t mix items containing nondimensional or extradimensional spaces (things that are bigger inside than out) with each other or with portable holes. Such combinations tend to strain the fabric of the cosmos. Putting one bag of holding within another is just like putting the bag into a portable hole. Items that function like bags of holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same mishaps when mishandled.

Note you can freely go plane hopping with portable holes, bags of holding, and the like. Spells that produce their own extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, pose no danger to occupants who may be using portable holes, bags of holding, and the like.

 

[lukelightning]

RAW you can put a portable hole into a heward's handy haversack, or vice-versa, with no problem. And despite the wording of rope trick there are no concrete rules for what happens when you bring a bag of holding or whatever into the space.

Personally I wouldn't bother with these weird extradimensional rules. Yeah, I guess you could abuse things like packing a dozen bags of holding with stuff and putting them in a portable hole, but if you have enough resources to do so you're probably high level and I have no problem with high-level characters doing stuff like that.

 

[moritheil]

Actual in-play experience: We had just slain a wyrm and were looting its hoard.

Fellow player, while standing in a portable hole: "Can I tell what that is? No? Okay, I get my (item) out and check."
Other player: "Did you - did you just say you are going to open your bag of holding and take something out? While in the portable hole?"
At this point, the fourth player drops what he's doing and starts packing up.
"Well, that's it. So much for the campaign."

As we head for the door, the DM calls to us. "No, that's silly! It just doesn't work - it simply fails to open while you're inside the portable hole. Come back!"

 

[Psimancer]

The rules on this topic are inconsistent, incomplete and legacy driven.

My suggestion is to decide how it works in your campaign, and use it for everything.

The obvious mechanics are:

1. Any XDS inside another XDS works just fine.
2. Any XDS inside another XDS fails to work.
3. Any XDS inside another XDS causes a rift.

My preference is to use option 1, but I can settle for option 2. Option 3 is just plain silly, IMHO.

The real advantage with option 1 is that it will accommodate the concepts of XDS created by spells, passing through portals or travelling planar, automatically answering questions such as; can I access XDS while on the astral/ethereal, etc…

 

[Crosshair]

From what I've played our groups go by:

1. A portable hole inside of a portable hole is go
2. A portable hole and a bag of holding don't mix under any circumstances and rip to the astral plane
3. Bags of holding do not stack inside of bags of holding.

All instances of extra dimensonal and nondimensional items work while plane-hopping, rope tricking et cetera.

 

[mvincent]

RAW you can put a portable hole into a heward's handy haversack, or vice-versa, with no problem.

RAW says (in the haversack description) that a handy haversack "is like a bag of holding".

The 3.0 FAQ says:
"Items that function like bags of holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same mishaps when mishandled."

And the Rules of the Game says:
"treat a Heward's handy haversack as a bag of holding when it interacts with a portable hole"

 

[mvincent]

For those that desire the information:

From the Rules of the Game:
"Extradimensional spaces are notorious for creating spectacular and dangerous effects when placed inside each other; however, the dangers can be somewhat overrated. One bag of holding can be placed safely inside another (of course, the first bag's weight counts against what the second bag can hold). Likewise, one portable hole can be placed safely inside another.

A bag of holding placed inside a portable hole, however, creates a rift to the Astral Plane. (See the bag of holding excerpt.) Oddly enough, objects aren't drawn through the gate.

It's best to treat a Heward's handy haversack as a bag of holding when it interacts with a portable hole.

Other interactions between extradimensional spaces are possible. For example, the rope trick and Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion both create extradimensional spaces. The rope trick spell description makes a passing mention of "hazards" associated with placing one extradimensional space inside another, but gives no details. (See the rope trick excerpt.)

I recommend that you ignore this reference. Your campaign won't be improved if rope trick effects implode when someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside. A Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion should likewise prove benign if someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside."

From the 3.0 FAQ::
“It’s a general rule that you can’t mix items containing nondimensional or extradimensional spaces (things that are bigger inside than out) with each other or with portable holes. Such combinations tend to strain the fabric of the cosmos. Putting one bag of holding within another is just like putting the bag into a portable hole. Items that function like bags of holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same mishaps when mishandled.

Note you can freely go plane hopping with portable holes, bags of holding, and the like. Spells that produce their own extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, pose no danger to occupants who may be using portable holes, bags of holding, and the like."

From the 2ed guide to High-level campaigns, section on magic items:
"Extradimensional Spaces: These items tend to produce spectacular effects when one is placed within another. The following items contain extradimensional spaces: bag of holding, bag of transmuting, flatbox†, girdle of many pouches, Heward’s handy haversack, portable hole, and pouch of accessibility. The following spells produce extradimensional spaces: extradimensional pocket†, Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion, and rope trick.

In most instances, placing one extradimensional space inside another opens a rift to the Astral Plane, casting both the items and their contents through the rift. The items and anything contained within them are scattered randomly in the infinite depths of the Astral Plane."