Extreme Dungeon Mastery?

The best groups are the ones that realize how good the game is does not rest entirely on the shoulders of the DM.

If the players sit there like bumps on a log and talk about only what modifiers they have, that game is going to bore me to tears.

When the players get into character, even just a bit, the game gets a whole lot better, the game world actually comes alive, and the camapign story takes on a life of its own.

That is the biggest thing I hate about 3E. The rules are cool, the feats are a great concept, defined skills are excellent, but the players, and the DM, spend so much time keeping all the numbers and conditional modifiers straight that a lot of "playing" is lost or hampered.

Simple is better because it allows everyone to concentrate on getting the story going and keeping it going. A good story is what makes the game great for me, and 3E was getting in the way of that.

The only 3E game I can enjoy is one the rules are followed closely enough to allow players and NPC's to accomplish their desired actions, but when it is argued and micro managed to where playing is halted, often for a long while, because there was a 1 point of modifeir missed, when their roll was failed by 2 or more, that is when I have a problem with 3E.

Every 3E group I have ever played in or DMed for worried about every single modifier for every situation, except one. There was no flowing story. Just erratic jerks. If I could find more people who were far more concerned about a fun story, and therefore a great game, than if they were given the opportunity to use every possible modifier, I would have a lot more love for 3E and other similiarly complex rules systems, like GURPS, Rolemaster, etc...

Since this book seems to concentrate on "playing" the game rather than "playing the rules" I think it will likely be one of my most favorite books for gaming.
 

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Treebore said:
That is the biggest thing I hate about 3E. The rules are cool, the feats are a great concept, defined skills are excellent, but the players, and the DM, spend so much time keeping all the numbers and conditional modifiers straight that a lot of "playing" is lost or hampered.

The best advice I've ever seen to prevent this actually came from the GURPS basic set -- "When in doubt, roll and shout." I've carried that over to my DM'ing style, and I find it makes things a lot simpler.*


*Warning: Do not attempt in the presence of rules lawyers. :)
 

Treebore said:
That is the biggest thing I hate about 3E. The rules are cool, the feats are a great concept, defined skills are excellent, but the players, and the DM, spend so much time keeping all the numbers and conditional modifiers straight that a lot of "playing" is lost or hampered.
You can get your hate on for 3E all you want -- maybe it makes ou feel cool and superior -- but almost every game system has numbers.

The numbers only stand in the way of a fun game if the participants let them.
 

Kafkonia said:
The best advice I've ever seen to prevent this actually came from the GURPS basic set -- "When in doubt, roll and shout." I've carried that over to my DM'ing style, and I find it makes things a lot simpler.*


*Warning: Do not attempt in the presence of rules lawyers. :)

ROTFL! Oh my god, I'm going to adopt that. :D


Joshua Randall said:
You can get your hate on for 3E all you want -- maybe it makes ou feel cool and superior -- but almost every game system has numbers.

Easy, Joshua. Treebore wasn't trying to come across as "cool and superior." He was just commenting on why 3e doesn't work for him. 3e is a cool system, but it doesn't work for everybody. ;)

The numbers only stand in the way of a fun game if the participants let them.


True enough. Sometimes, it's hard to keep the numbers down, especially if you either play with rules lawyers, or have one as a DM. I once had a DM that had a combat system in our old AD&D games that was so complex, most of the players were scratching their heads.
 

Joshua Randall said:
You can get your hate on for 3E all you want -- maybe it makes ou feel cool and superior --
Hey, don't overreact! There's nothing at all wrong with Treebore's post; he stated it as his opinion, not some immutable truth. Your personal insult was completely uncalled for.
 

Joshua Randall said:
You can get your hate on for 3E all you want -- maybe it makes ou feel cool and superior -- but almost every game system has numbers.

The numbers only stand in the way of a fun game if the participants let them.


Ummm, I'm pretty sure that is exactly what I said.

Edit: Plus I don't have a "hate on", thats your thinking, not mine. If I hated 3E I wouldn't be on these boards and I wouldn't be buying 3E products. So no one is justified to say I hate 3E. Ever.
 

Piratecat said:
Hey, don't overreact! There's nothing at all wrong with Treebore's post; he stated it as his opinion, not some immutable truth. Your personal insult was completely uncalled for.


Thanks. Yeah, those are my problems with 3E, and none of it means I hate 3E. I wouldn't be here on these boards if I hated 3E. Besides, what I site in my first post is problems I have with how people play 3E, not about 3E itself.
 

Xdm

XDM: Extreme Dungeon Mastery is an upcoming product from Margaret Weis Productions, Ltd. written by Tracy and Curtis Hickman. The basic premise is... Take your game to the next level! There are lots of styles of running a role playing game, but this is the one that adds actual production values! Learn how to use queued music, sound effects, lasers, a fog machine, props, puzzles, sleight of hand, and pyrotechnics. Filled with warnings and disclaimers, XDM will help you create games that your players will talk about for years to come. Also included is going to a guide on how to run your own "Killer Breakfast"-style event as Tracy has done at Gen Con for many years.

The book is going to be fun to read as well as informative, written in a fast and light style that is sure to amuse.

The book currently does not have a release date, but we'll be putting out new information shortly as we update our schedule.

Jamie Chambers
Vice President
Margaret Weis Productions, Ltd.
 


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