Failed promises

[d20Dwarf]

lol!

MY point is that saying book x sucks is not then same as saying Wil Upchurch, Monte Cook, or Keith Baker is a bad writer and should burn in hell.

I can't believe you want me to burn in hell!!!!



Seriously, my beef in this thread has never been about personal comments, so don't sweep me up in GMS's discussion. I'm focused only on incorrect criticisms of the works themselves. I have no problem with legitimate criticisms...I think I've been more than willing to discuss problems with books I've worked on without getting offended. But that doesn't mean I'm going to always agree, or watch a product, any product, get bashed for irrational reasons.

 

[Staffan]

I felt the same way. It was OK, but not nearly as good as the Revised edition. Starship combat could have been better still, but WotC has yet to do that aspect of sci-fi gaming right yet.

I think they did it pretty well in Alternity. Though Alternity was mostly written in the TSR era, the main people responsible still work for WOTC (Bill Slavicsek and Richard Baker).

 

[billd91]

In the specific case of Gamma World, what might be asked is whether a writer should follow fans' notions about what Setting X was regardless of whether those notions match reality. IN GW's case, I don't think they do.

So you're saying that 10,000 Elvis fans can, in fact, be wrong?
While that may be true about establishing obscure facts that any particular subset of 10,000 Elvis fans might be ignorant of, it isn't true about subjective issues of taste.

In the case of Gamma World, if the character of the new product doesn't fit in with the older versions, then it's clearly not Gamma World at all. It is something different. Calling it Gamma World when it fundamentally isn't is failing to live up to the promise that using the Gamma World name entails.
Now, there may be wiggle room between different players' versions of Gamma World (or GH, or FR, or anything else) because of the way individuals approach the game (and gaming in general), but if a large number of the fans say something simply doesn't fit versus one author or game company that says it does, then the fans have been let down and the product does not live up to the promise of its line.

 

[Gomez]

Maybe, but maybe not. In my experience, it's not the dice and calculation thereof that present the issues, but in trying to make starship combat "fit with" or reflect other parts of the game. I'm not saying it *couldn't* work, just that it *hasn't*

The thing is there can be several different types of Space Combat involved. A system that can simulate a trench run in an X-Wing might not work for a full-fledged space battle with multiple Star Destroyers and Corellian (sp?) Cruisers. And how do you get the player involved is a big factor.

 

[Kanegrundar]

Beyond the Horizon for GWD20 was a book that was OK that didn't deliver on promises. I remember reading that the book was going to contain new races. I was leery thanks to the core rules, but Machines and Mutants was much better, so I bought the pdf. All in all, it was OK, not great, but unless my eyes are deceiving me there were no new races in the book. Failed promise right there. I was disappointed, but the rest of the book was alright. I may not use much, if any, of it, but at least it was an interesting read much of the way through.

Kane

 

[mhacdebhandia]

This doesn't quite qualify for the thread, except in the meta-sense of "the game had promise, so why did they squander it by producing this??"

Shadowforce Archer. When you've crafted a fun, playable spy game, I fail to see why you would decide to make a third-grade "secret supernatural" setting the official baseline of the game.

 

[GVDammerung]

In the specific case of Gamma World, what might be asked is whether a writer should follow fans' notions about what Setting X was regardless of whether those notions match reality. IN GW's case, I don't think they do.

As I don't know enough about the recent GW, I can't comment. I didn't buy it. I do take your point that what is "canon" may be open to extremely wide interpretation.

BOS is a pretty enough term, but it's really just a manifestation of pointless consumerism. And it's *bad* for gaming. Publishers like it as a kind of economic junk food, and if you want a better hobby, you have to wean them off it.

It is a manifestation of being a fan, of following "dem bums." Much like baseball. I take your point that publishers can see this as an opportunity to bring other than their A game but smart publishers will not do so for reasons you identify - TSR.

As soon as sales are divorced from content, content goes downhill. The guaranteed sales base of people who will buy anything labelled as a must-have is smaller than you might think.

It is *much* better to encourage companies to push the envelope of quality by buying cautiously.

I agree that sales divorced from content is not generally good. It is, however, sometimes inevitable for the fan.

I agree as well that buying cautiously is also a good thing in most cases. BOS products do exist, however, especially for fans of a particular setting.

I think it is a matter of proportion. When possible, limit your personal BOS list. It is not possible, I think, for a fan to totally do so but one can try.

In no event, however, does a purchaser _ever_ give up the right to be critical of what they bought, however.

 

[Kanegrundar]

I think they did it pretty well in Alternity. Though Alternity was mostly written in the TSR era, the main people responsible still work for WOTC (Bill Slavicsek and Richard Baker).

I played and loved Alternity. I however never used the starship combat rules. I tend to use Alt for GW'ish sci-fantasy where the planet to planet travel was done via wormholes and portals. I sold my original books shortly after D20 Modern came out, but I did pick them up in pdf, so I'll have to look at those as well.

Kane

 

[The_Universe]

The thing is there can be several different types of Space Combat involved. A system that can simulate a trench run in an X-Wing might not work for a full-fledged space battle with multiple Star Destroyers and Corellian (sp?) Cruisers. And how do you get the player involved is a big factor.

That's definitely part of it, yes.

 

[The_Universe]

This doesn't quite qualify for the thread, except in the meta-sense of "the game had promise, so why did they squander it by producing this??"

Shadowforce Archer. When you've crafted a fun, playable spy game, I fail to see why you would decide to make a third-grade "secret supernatural" setting the official baseline of the game.

If Alias can do it, why not Spycraft?