Tony Vargas
Legend
Indomitable could let them try again vs the fear, for instance, but if they need a 17 or something, oh well. :shrug:It doesn't take skill to pass a save. It's luck. It's not like an attack or a single hit, which averages out over time. I've seen a condition (poisoned in one case, fear in another) functionally take characters out of a fight. He player can't "try harder" to succeed. They can't "get good" to avoid those effects.
IMHO, saves need to calibrate better to level, if not PC level like in 1e, at least relative level, like non-AC defenses in 4e (which were still, IMHO, pretty marginal).
The multiple-save mechanics do have some potential, though. For instance, the first save could be harder, and subsequent ones get easier - or characters could get bettter or have resources that they can apply after the first save...
...something seems to be needed, though.