Fairygold

[Borlon]

Tiny creature is something the size of a cat.
Average weight for a cat is 7-12 pounds.
According to the PHB page 112 there are 50 coins in a pound.
So the proper amount should be 350 - 600 gp per tiny fey.

Of course, being innately magical, a fey may very produce more gold than "science" would expect.

If fey are the same density as humans, their density would be a little less than water. If they were turned into pure gold while retaining their volume, their weight would increase by at least a factor of 19.3 (the specific gravity of gold). So Tinner's numbers would have to be multiplied by a factor of about 20. A creature can be tiny and weigh a lot less than a cat, though; many fey are very slender indeed. 1000 gp is a very conservative lower limit. Of course, the fey might be hollow after being transformed.

As a guide to how much money a spellcaster can make casting spells, the fee for NPC spellcasting is around caster level x spell level x 10 gp. You actually need to have someone want you to cast the spell, though; you can't just cast spells all day. This spell requires a hard to get spell component, though; the smurfs grigs are hard to get ahold of. The two factors partly balance out; but I would allow the spell to make at least this much free money. At minimum caster level, that's only 280 gp per fey.

The other way to make money through magic is through the construction of magic items. Each 25 gp of market price costs 12.5 gp in materials and 1 xp of personal energy. You are more or less turning xp into gold at the rate of 1 xp = 12.5 gp profit.

If you combine these two calculations, I would say that an xp expenditure should be no more than about 50 xp per casting. Assuming 1000 gp fey, that is. 6000 gp fey would be a different story.

 

[Staffan]

Also, on a much more minor note, I think 1,000 gp for a tiny creature might be a little high.

That value comes from a thread over in General discussion, and specifically applies to grigs. To summarize:
1: A grig weighs approximately 1 lb (according to the SRD).
2: Flesh is about the same density as water, gold is about 20 times that.
1+2: A grig-sized object made of gold would weigh about 20 lbs (assuming grig flesh has the same density as human flesh).
3: Gold is worth 50 gp per lb.
(1+2)+3: A grig made out of gold is worth 50*20=1,000 gp.

 

[Sigurd]

I love this spell.

I imagine that when it is cast a star goes out in the forest, or a some such echo of the reprehensible act.

One thing that might mitigate the damage somewhat is that the fey might be far more valuable as gold statues than melted down. Perfect in every detail, renderrings of fairies and fey critters would be valuable in any city. This would create a number of victems that might be rescued with the breaking of the spell.

I'd give the evil wizard something more make him younger for every fey transformed. He'd age 6 times his previous benefit if the 'statue' was ever destroyed or the fey released.

Sigurd

 

[MatthewJHanson]

That value comes from a thread over in General discussion, and specifically applies to grigs. To summarize:
1: A grig weighs approximately 1 lb (according to the SRD).
2: Flesh is about the same density as water, gold is about 20 times that.
1+2: A grig-sized object made of gold would weigh about 20 lbs (assuming grig flesh has the same density as human flesh).
3: Gold is worth 50 gp per lb.
(1+2)+3: A grig made out of gold is worth 50*20=1,000 gp.

Fine, fine. Shows what I get for trusting my gut.

 

[Thia Halmades]

What on earth is a grig? Regardless. I'm going to side with the "this is unbalanced" crew on this one. Well, let me rephrase. I would never allow it into my campaign, and as a campaign-specific spell, there's only so much that one can say about it. The thought of changing Easter from Eggs to Fey amuses me no end. "Mom! Timmy bit the head off my chocolate fairy!" I digress.

- Creates permanet wealth (discussed earlier, no go)
- Deals permanent damage (discussed earlier, again, no go)
- The effect itself is permanent (polymorph any object then becomes the 'gold' standard for this level of transmutation). XP cost and all that are fine, but you have to be bent on ruining some poor fey's life to want this spell.

LCpt. Thia Halmades

 

[fuindordm]

What on earth is a grig? Regardless. I'm going to side with the "this is unbalanced" crew on this one. Well, let me rephrase. I would never allow it into my campaign, and as a campaign-specific spell, there's only so much that one can say about it. The thought of changing Easter from Eggs to Fey amuses me no end. "Mom! Timmy bit the head off my chocolate fairy!" I digress.

- Creates permanet wealth (discussed earlier, no go)
- Deals permanent damage (discussed earlier, again, no go)

Actually, it doesn't create permanent wealth. The xp/gp exchange rate is fixed (see magic item creation rules and spellcasting for hire), and as written the spell actually costs more (thanks to the gemstone component) than it gets you. If you hired someone to cast this spell for you they would charge 1480 gp (component cost + xp cost + caster level*spell level *10).

As for the power level of the effect, it's comparable to slay living, baleful polymorph (5) or flesh to stone (6). It has a 10 minute casting time, which means it's not useful in combat, and works only on small fey.

4th level sounds about right, but a case could be made for making the spell a weak 5th. Since it's essentially a plot device spell, 4th is fine. Even if a player learns it, they're not going to be using it.

Grigs are fairies with grasshopper legs, IIRC.

Ben

 

[Thia Halmades]

We're not talking about hiring someone, though, we're talking about if it works for a PC in character. My argument is that if the PC were to cast it, the would obtain a fixed increase in wealth once they melted down Mr. Grasshopper. You would go from a 200gp gem and 200xp (a pittance in the long run) to a 1,000gp value solid-gold Grig. So I consider that permanent generation of wealth under RAW, that's where I was getting that from.

I see what you're saying, but I'm talking about a PC having this. I'm less concerned with using it as a combat spell, and I did take that into account when I offered my opinion. I stand by what I said -- as a flavor spell for a specific campaign, not a whole lot I can say about it, but it wouldn't work with me.

LCpt. Thia Halmades

 

[fuindordm]

We're not talking about hiring someone, though, we're talking about if it works for a PC in character. My argument is that if the PC were to cast it, the would obtain a fixed increase in wealth once they melted down Mr. Grasshopper. You would go from a 200gp gem and 200xp (a pittance in the long run) to a 1,000gp value solid-gold Grig. So I consider that permanent generation of wealth under RAW, that's where I was getting that from.

I see what you're saying, but I'm talking about a PC having this. I'm less concerned with using it as a combat spell, and I did take that into account when I offered my opinion. I stand by what I said -- as a flavor spell for a specific campaign, not a whole lot I can say about it, but it wouldn't work with me.

LCpt. Thia Halmades

Can't a wish spell create 25,000 gp? It's the same transaction.

Ben

 

[Borlon]

You would go from a 200gp gem and 200xp (a pittance in the long run) to a 1,000gp value solid-gold Grig. So I consider that permanent generation of wealth under RAW, that's where I was getting that from.

1000 gp is a pittance too, for a high level character. If a character spends money and xp to make magic items for sale, he will make a modest profit. This spell is far from excessive. In fact, as written, it is not good enough.

 

[Thia Halmades]

And again, my point is as much how it works as to why it works. RAW says that Slay Living and F2S are 5th, but you can't generate permanent wealth until 7th at Limited Wish. And, as I said, if it were me I wouldn't do it, but as a campaign specific spell, hey, go nuts. We're talking my opinion, not my ruling. I'd make it 5th level and call it good, 6th if I were feeling cranky.

The whole solid-gold thing bothers me. Again, I submit the argument that you can't "make gold", but I will also yield that by the time you're turning Fey into lawn ornaments you don't need it, point taken and conceded. If you want to balance it, in my opinion, 5th is probably sufficient. However, limited target and extensive duration (two counter points) could make an argument for fourth.

And I stand by what I said originally; it just doesn't seem terribly balanced in my head, although I'll yield that similar spells exist as touch attacks and instants. Ultimately, house spell, house flavor. If the question is: Will this break anything? Answer: No.

LCpt. Thia Halmades