Fals life & temporary hit points

[Felon]

So, does false life amount to a self-healing spell for arcanists? A mage casts false life, gets some temp hit points, then gets hurt. He can then cast false life to get more hit points back?

 

[frankthedm]

False life never puts back any HP. If the caster uses up all the Temporary HP from false life and casts it again, he adds more temporary HP onto his HP total.

IIRC wotc has been saying recently Temp HP from the same source don't stack.

 

[Thurbane]

Yep, I think two castings of FL count as "Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.", as per the SRD...

 

[Felon]

OK, not real clear on the response here.

An arcanist is down 10 hit points. He cast false life and rolls 10 hit points. He's not healed, he just has a pool of 10 hit points he's sitting on. But what if he's at negative hit points when he casts false life? He's not positive then?

And what if those 10 temp points get used up? He can't cast false life to replenish them?

 

[Felon]

Yep, I think two castings of FL count as "Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.", as per the SRD...

That's a great ruling for effects that aren't ablative in nature, but temporary hit points run out, and then you have a hurt arcanist who is no longer benefiting from the spell he cast on himself hours ago. So, he's got to cast dispel magic on himself to remove the old false life so he can cast it again?

 

[Hypersmurf]

An arcanist is down 10 hit points. He cast false life and rolls 10 hit points. He's not healed, he just has a pool of 10 hit points he's sitting on.

Right. His hit point total is 30/40, and he has 10 THP. This is quite different from having 40/40 hit points and no THP; for example, the second case gains no benefit from a Cure Light Wounds, while the first case might be healed right up to 40/40 and still have 10 THP in addition.

But what if he's at negative hit points when he casts false life? He's not positive then?

Interestingly, while his effective total is positive, he doesn't necessarily regain consciousness:
Healing that raises the dying character’s hit points to 0 makes him conscious and disabled. Healing that raises his hit points to 1 or more makes him fully functional again, just as if he’d never been reduced to 0 or lower.

False Life might raise your effective hit point total to 1 or more, but it is not healing; thus, it could be argued that it is not an effect that makes a dying character fully functional again.

And what if those 10 temp points get used up? He can't cast false life to replenish them?

The duration includes "... or until discharged". Once they're used up, the spell expires.

IIRC wotc has been saying recently Temp HP from the same source don't stack.

The 3E and 3.5 Main FAQs take very different approaches to the topic.

3E FAQ:
How is the body feeder weapon quality supposed to work?
Do the temporary hit points from the weapon stack? The
same question applies to mind feeder weapons and to spell
effects, such as vampiric touch.

Temporary hit points from a body feeder weapon stack with
each other, but not with temporary hit points from any other
source. Likewise, temporary psionic points from a mind feeder
weapon stack, but not with temporary psionic points from any
other source.

In general, any effect that allows you to gain temporary hit
points over time allows you to stack those points, but only
those points. For example, if you use the vampiric touch spell,
the temporary hit points you gain from that particular casting of
the spell stack. They don’t stack with the temporary hit points
you get from an aid spell, nor would the effects of two
vampiric touch or aid spells stack. If you were to use two body
feeder weapons (or two mind feeder weapons), you could not
stack the temporary points from the two weapons.

3.5 FAQ:
Do temporary hit points from two applications of the
same effect stack? What about from different effects? If I
have temporary hit points from multiple sources, how
should I apply damage?

Temporary hit points from two applications of the same
effect don’t stack; instead, the highest number of temporary hit
points applies in place of all others. Temporary hit points from
different sources stack, but you must keep track of them
separately.

For example, imagine a character who gained 15 temporary
hit points from an aid spell. After taking 8 points of damage,
she has 7 temporary hit points left from the spell. If another aid
spell were cast on the same character granting 12 temporary hit
points, this total would replace the other spell’s total, meaning
the character would now have 12 temporary hit points (rather
than 19). If the character then cast false life on herself, she
would add the full benefit of that spell to the temporary hit
points from the aid spell.

This also applies to temporary hit points gained from
energy drain and similar special abilities. Each successful
attack counts as one application of the effect (meaning that an
attack that bestows 2 or more negative levels still counts as
only one application of the effect). For example, a wight gains
5 temporary hit points each time it bestows a negative level
with its slam attack. If it bestows another negative level while it
has 2 temporary hit points remaining from the first attack, the
new temporary hit points would replace the old ones.

Temporary hit points are “first-in, first-out.” Damage
should be taken off the oldest temporary-hit-point-granting
effect first; when that effect is exhausted, apply damage to the
next oldest effect. For this reason, you must track each supply
of temporary hit points separately.

So, under the 3E answer, THP only stack if they're from the same source. Under the 3.5 answer, THP only stack if they're not from the same source.

But under the 3E answer, two False Life spells are considered separate sources (and don't stack); under the 3.5 answer, two False Life spells are considered the same source (and don't stack).

-Hyp.

 

[Particle_Man]

OK, not real clear on the response here.

An arcanist is down 10 hit points. He cast false life and rolls 10 hit points. He's not healed, he just has a pool of 10 hit points he's sitting on. But what if he's at negative hit points when he casts false life? He's not positive then?

And what if those 10 temp points get used up? He can't cast false life to replenish them?

First, if mage is at 10 hp, casts false life to get 10 hp, and gets hurt for 8 hp (leaving 10 real hp and 2 temporary hp), he can cast false life again. If the result is more than 2 temp hp, the stronger of the two false lifes on him will "count" and he will use the 2nd casting of false life (say for 11 hp) instead of the "old" one of 2 hp. Thus it can make sense to cast false life twice, if one has lost some of the temporary hit points after having cast it the first time.

Second, if a mage is at negative hit points, he is usually unconscious. If you mean the mage would be at negative hit points, but the current false life temporary hit points gives him a positive total, then the mage is fine. To see if he is conscious or not, add his regular current hit points to his temporary hit points, and subract any nonlethal damage. If it is a positive number, he is fine. If is a negative number, he is not fine. If it is exactly 0, he is kinda fine, kinda not.

Third, if the temporary hit points get used up, the mage can cast false life again to get more temporary hit points. However, "Real" hit points don't get healed by false life. Thus a mage living on "false life" hit points is in trouble (much like slow poison), as the spell has a duration that will run out. But it gives the mage time to find a cleric or healing potion.

But it is actually quite difficult to get into the situation of having negative "Real" hp and positive temporary hp, as the temporary hp are always the first to go when one gets hurt. That is sort of the point.

Hope that makes some sort of sense.

edit: If anything I say contradict what hypersmurf says, go with hypersmurf.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But it is actually quite difficult to get into the situation of having negative "Real" hp and positive temporary hp, as the temporary hp are always the first to go when one gets hurt.

If you imagine someone whacked to -2 who then gets an Aid spell cast on them, it's certainly doable

-Hyp.

 

[Felon]

Actually, false life was just picking a familiar PHB instance. I'm more curious about temporary hit points when they're conferred by a favored soul with the Deity's Favor alternate class ability, which bestows temp HP whenever a spell is cast on an ally.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, false life was just picking a familiar PHB instance. I'm more curious about temporary hit points when they're conferred by a favored soul with the Deity's Favor alternate class ability, which bestows temp HP whenever a spell is cast on an ally.

Under the 3.5 FAQ answer, I'd consider any spells to throw THP into the Deity's Favour 'pool'. So if you cast a spell that gives you 3 THP, you've got 3 THP. If you then cast a spell that gives you 5 THP, you've got 5 THP. If you then cast a spell that gives you 4 THP, you've still got 5 THP.

-Hyp.