False truisms in 5th edition

[FrogReaver]

How, exactly? You're going to engage a hundred ogres continuously for six days?

I suppose a party with certain specific options, such as a warlock with Eldritch Spear*, could try a strategy of staying outside javelin range, taking out any bolt launchers in the warband, and grinding the rest of the ogres down, hour by hour. However, this requires options which are not typically seen as optimization targets; I don't see a lot of warlock guides recommending Eldritch Spear. It also assumes that you can take out the bolt launchers before they take you out.

[SIZE=-2]*To attempt this with an archer, you need to explain where you're getting the ammunition. It's one thing to buy a few dozen arrows; it's quite another to plonk down some gold in a farming community and say "Eight hundred arrows to go."[/SIZE]

In groups of 2 of course

 

[MechaPilot]

It'd be real weird if they had made these claims, or had tried to make these truisms true. Especially the one about wizards being the best arcane caster. Though, I would be rather amused if Meals did say that: "Sure we made the bard, the sorcerer and warlock for you, we've included them in the game right alongside the wizard, but they suck. Play a wizard. Trust me. Choosing the wizard class is the best choice for an arcane caster."

Well, it wouldn't be the first time they did something like that. Remember the Legends & Lore articles when they were talking about the design of 5e, and how the fighter was supposed to be the best at fighting? From my experience (which is not absolute, YMMV, yadda-yadda-yadda) the barbarian is the best at fighting.

 

[Umbran]

Not to nitpick (a lie, this is totally to nitpick), but with one of the options being six days of retreating combat, combat optimisation would make a huuuge difference

Note that the cavalry comes in six days. The ogres reach the town in *three*, as stated. Or, you know, six days, and the cavalry shows up to find a town burned to the ground three days ago, but miraculously no dead villagers - now the cavalry has to catch up to you who are still fleeing ogres, somehow protecting the townsfolk as you go...

This is all an aside, of course, though I do think it makes the point that optimizing for DPR may leave you weak in other areas that could be crucial. Or not. It really depends on what the GM is throwing at you.

 

[Umbran]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time they did something like that. Remember the Legends & Lore articles when they were talking about the design of 5e, and how the fighter was supposed to be the best at fighting? From my experience (which is not absolute, YMMV, yadda-yadda-yadda) the barbarian is the best at fighting.

I think that "best" becomes a bit situation dependent. For example, the barbarian in my party is a damage sponge most of the time. And the combination of him with frenzied rage and Haste is something to behold... until we are pressed for number of hefty encounters, and he winds up with levels of exhaustion that he can't shake.

 

[Parmandur]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time they did something like that. Remember the Legends & Lore articles when they were talking about the design of 5e, and how the fighter was supposed to be the best at fighting? From my experience (which is not absolute, YMMV, yadda-yadda-yadda) the barbarian is the best at fighting.

The Fighter will usually be capable of 2-4 times as many attacks per turn, and has Fighting Styles. The Barbarian who is pushed past their Rahe economy becomes way less efficient at fighting than the Energizer Bunny Champion who doesn't need a rest.

 

[MechaPilot]

I think that "best" becomes a bit situation dependent.

Certainly. I'll go even further and add that it's been my experience that "best" is almost always situationally dependent.

For example, the barbarian in my party is a damage sponge most of the time. And the combination of him with frenzied rage and Haste is something to behold... until we are pressed for number of hefty encounters, and he winds up with levels of exhaustion that he can't shake.

I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment. However, I'd also add that if you're running published adventures, you're probably not going to hit that limit very often. I ran LMoP and PotA for a group that included a totem warrior barbarian PC, a champion fighter and an eldritch knight. Going by the published adventure, the barbarian was only ever sidelined with exhaustion once. At all other times he was the star when it came to melee combat.

 

[MechaPilot]

The Fighter will usually be capable of 2-4 times as many attacks per turn, and has Fighting Styles. The Barbarian who is pushed past their Rahe economy becomes way less efficient at fighting than the Energizer Bunny Champion who doesn't need a rest.

Neat. It hasn't really happened that I've seen. The barbarian played at my table was only once pushed past his limit.

 

[Monayuris]

How, exactly? You're going to engage a hundred ogres continuously for six days?

I suppose a party with certain specific options, such as a warlock with Eldritch Spear*, could try a strategy of staying outside javelin range, taking out any bolt launchers in the warband, and grinding the rest of the ogres down, hour by hour. However, this requires options which are not typically seen as optimization targets; I don't see a lot of warlock guides recommending Eldritch Spear. It also assumes that you can take out the bolt launchers before they take you out.

[SIZE=-2]*To attempt this with an archer, you need to explain where you're getting the ammunition. It's one thing to buy a few dozen arrows; it's quite another to plonk down some gold in a farming community and say "Eight hundred arrows to go."[/SIZE]

By kiting them of course. The single most effective strategy (works on the Tarrasque, too, so I hear) in D&D since the D&D world is just an infinite flat plane.

 

[Parmandur]

Neat. It hasn't really happened that I've seen. The barbarian played at my table was only once pushed past his limit.

Even so, the Fighter will be making more attacks that do more damage (Champion) or coincide with spells (Eldritch Knight). Sure, the Barbarian is great at fighting, especially if given the room to Nova without consequences by the DM, but the Fighter is still measurably better at several aspects of combat.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The Fighter will usually be capable of 2-4 times as many attacks per turn, and has Fighting Styles. The Barbarian who is pushed past their Rage economy becomes way less efficient at fighting than the Energizer Bunny Champion who doesn't need a rest.

In practice, it's pretty difficult to run anyone out of resources in a day, unless the DM is intentionally going over-and-beyond or the players are being extremely reckless.

By the time a fighter has more attacks than the barbarian, the barbarian has four rages per day, and gains a fifth at the following level. While it's possible to fit six encounters into the daily XP budget, most of them will be on the easier side, and nobody needs to expend a limited resource on an easy fight. While the fighter may be the star of show in easy encounters, the barbarian will have more than enough juice to steal the spotlight in any fight worth talking about.