Fantasy Anthology Open Call . . .

[Bardsandsages]

I am under the impression that the people producing this anthology are also published authors who are planning on submitting their own work to the project.

I didn't interpret that from the original post, and I would hope that was not the case. I had originally written a vampire story for our Dead Men (And Women) Walking anthology, but pulled it because I didn't want the book to appear to be a vanity project. Those serving as editors should not generally include their own stories in a book. There is no author so talented or so objective (myself included) that can edit his or her own work. And trying to do so generally leads to bad, bad results.

Like I said, though, it seems to be a good cause.

Writing is not charity work. Yes, writers write because they love it and feel they have something to say, but a writer should never turn over their work for free when someone else may be profiting off of it. It would be one thing if we were talking about a free ezine. I use to contribute to Demonground and a couple others. But this is billed as a print anthology, one I am assuming will be marketed for a profit. This isn't a charitable cause, it is a business venture. Now on the other hand, if this WAS a fundraising project for charity, that would be a whole different ballgame. But I don't believe that is the case.

My first novel was 45,000 words (it was YA), and I trashed the manuscript the day I got my first rejection letter.

You know, Stephen King did that once with a book. His wife picked it out of the trash and pushed him to find a publisher. The book in question turned out to be Carrie.

 

[Priest_Sidran]

Well I had thought to submit something to the cause, but after the rabblerousing that has gone on in this post I probably will not submit, not because I am insulted, or begrudging of G7 and their offer of "paid" service, but rather because I feel that what has been said rings true on a deeper level.

I do not see how a Print release company could not have enough money to pay 1 cent per word, if not more (isn't the typical 5-10 cents per word). A single flat rate + 2 copies (and or retaining my rights to my story) might make the shift towards being excited about such a venture.

What I do not see, which I would not mind seeing is a PDF Anthology with a print on demand option. I can think of a few PDF causes which garnered the attention of the ENworld Community in the past, why not start a Sci-fi/Fantasy Genre PDF Publication for fiction material? Would such a thing even be viable as a form in which the common customer would be interested. I know that many of the big print publishers already offer books in PDF format (at least on a limited scale), Baen being the forefront for such a push.

 

[G7]

Wow, I need to keep track on the posts I start. Sorry for the absence.

No offense taken by any naysayers. Anyway, this project is not a money-making scheme, nor one to take advantage of others authors. This is a project done merely for the enjoyment of it. There's no "fine print" to trick authors into signing their rights away. All authors retain the rights to their work for any subsequent project they deem necessary to submit it to. The bottom line for this project is . . . if you have written something of quality and you simply want to see it in print and have some others read it . . . this is the platform to do it. Not everyone is an aspiring "full-time" author. Many just want their stuff read by others.

I'd be lying if I said this was going to get worldwide distribution . . . it won't. However, it will be available online to anywhere in the world, and it'll be pushed pretty hard in our local area. Remember, most writers just want their work read by others. That’s what we’re trying to do here. If fact, we don’t even plan on an over-expensive price.

Keep in mind that we actually do have people on board who've worked in the publishing industry. We've already lined up several high quality writers, and have left the remaining slots open to submissions. The whole package is turning out to be pretty good, and we're very excited about it. We're not tricking anyone here . . . if you want to submit, go for it! If not, no problem.

If you have more questions or criticism, please e-mail or post. I'll keep a better watch of this thread . . . I promise.

 

[ha-gieden]

Out of curiosity, why did you give up on that manuscript so soon? There are lots of markets out there. Rejection is part of the writing business.

Heh.

I was new and unsure of myself. I had serious misgivings about letting my writing be seen by anyone, ever, and only submitted it after much harrassment from my loving husband.

Even though I sort of expected to get rejected, when I got that letter, I cried.

Then I remembered how much I had enjoyed the *process* of writing, and decided that if the book I had written wasn't good enough, then I would just start over and write one that was. Besides, I had noticed improvement in myself by the end of that first manuscript, and was sure that writing another one would improve my performance even more. I didn't keep sending the manuscript out because I felt that it no longer represented what I was capable of, and I wanted anything that got published under my name to be something really worth reading.


Bards and Sages:

There are several authors behind G7, and while they may not be capable of editing their own work, I'm sure they can edit each other's. (This post may need some editing of its own )
Of course, everything I know about them, I know because I did contribute to their anthology. They aren't a big company or anything. But they are really nice people.
You say that writing isn't charity work. Isn't that up to the author? You go on to say that you could see contributing to a free e-zine or to a fund-raiser. Well, *I* could see contributing to this.
I think it's really a matter of taste, and what each author sees as a good use of their work.
You seem to have a lot of integrity and to take writers and writing very seriously. I can also respect that you are trying to help keep inexperienced authors from getting taken advantage of. I can see the points that you are trying to make. Like I said earlier though, this was fun for me. I enjoyed it. I'll enjoy holding the finished product in my grubby little paws. That's why I contributed.
Others will contribute, or not, for their own reasons - and have every right to do so. I don't think that G7 is trying to take advantage of anyone here.

 

[Bardsandsages]

I never implied anyone was trying to take advantage of anyone. I made a suggestion, and it sort of steamrolled from there. Geesh, even when I'm not deliberately trying to cause trouble, I cause trouble!

My initial comments were meant simply to raise awareness. If you are walking into a project like this eyes wide open with no delusions of what it really is, certain do as you see fit as far as submitting work. Putting together an anthology can be a rather enjoyable experience (as I mentioned earlier, I've done two). But it can also be very frustrating and dissappointing if folks on both sides aren't 100% clear about what they are expecting. The initial post was posted as a "paid" listing, but it is not really a paid offer. And while the publisher is not trying to steal anyone's copyright (and I never implied such), they are asking for first-time rights, which should rarely be given away for free.

For those that wonder about the difference: copyright always remains with the author, unless the author specifically gives it away. What you sell a story are actually selling certain rights to use the copyright material, but the copyright is always yours. Most paying markets are either only interested in purchasing first-time rights, or pay a lower rate for reprint rights. So if you give away a story now, you could find yourself having a hard time finding a paying market for the story later. Sometimes when you are struggling to get credits under your belt, you don't think about this, because you just want to see your name in print. But I know many writers who have regreted not thinking the process through a bit more thoroughly before giving their work away.

In fact, what a lot of people don't realize is even posting your poems or stories ON YOUR OWN WEBSITE could disqualify you from certain markets, particularly if the market is requesting First time electronic rights (meaning the story would appear for the first time in electronic format). And so writers should think it through before offering to give away their work, and potential publishers should think it through before asking writers to do so. By initial comment was simply that if submissions were also open to previously published material, it would give a writer the option to determine how they wanted to participate in the project without having to default to giving away first-time rights.

And particularly when dealing with a project that will, by the publisher's own admission, have a limited release, I still question not opening the project up to previously published works.

I do take writers and writing very seriously, I'm a writer first in my mind. I mentor, and I serve as a regional rep for the International Women's Writing Guild. The internet has created this free-for-all mentality in publishing where anyone with an internet connection can claim to be a publisher, and I have heard horror stories from writers regarding the embarassment of seeing their work in a project they thought was from a traditional publisher that turned out to be some vanity press or amateur fiasco (and no, no, no, I am NOT implying anything! Just speaking generally).

And so I try to at the very least raise awareness of what writers and aspiring publishers should and should not expect out of each other, if for no other reason that for many they genuinely don't know. Once the information is out there, it is up to the individuals to determine what they want to do.

G7--I still want to know where the wizard art came from!

 

[G7]

Bardsandsages, I understand your comments. The statement I really found laughable was this by Mouseferatu, "as a published author, I would strongly discourage even unpublished authors from submitting." Seriously . . . this guy has no idea about our professionalism, and to publicly attempt to turn others away just reeks of negativism.

Anyway, Bardsandsages, I still don't understand your initial complaint. You are saying you're simply trying to raise awareness by implying "Watch out for this open call." That's an indirect way of questioning the professionalism of this project. Is there really much difference between getting paid 1¢ a word, as opposed to getting a free copy of the book? A few dollars, maybe less if you have a small story. And, how many authors do you know that have scored a huge profit from their 1st short story that was released? Please. You seem to be completely focused on the negative aspects. If you knew me personally, or the others involved, I assure you, you'd change your mind. I can't say enough about how excited we are about this, nor how well we believe it's turning out.

This whole situation started with a few authors getting together with the idea of putting together a very good anthology. After we secured several excellent authors, we decided it would be a neat idea to open the project up to other submissions as well. You're acting as if we have no idea what we're doing. That’s simply not fair. If you don't want to contribute, that's fine. But, don't downgrade the project for others. I don't get that . . .

I hope you understand why I feel I need to defend myself in this situation.

BTW, the wizard art was done by N.C. Wyeth (Treasure Island fame) in the early 20th century and is called "Astrologer From The Tower." It is public domain as far as I know. It’s always been one of my favorites.

 

[Sigurd]

Comp Copy = Paid Writing?

I wish everyone well but I think it is cheesy to call one complimentary copy 'paid writing'. If it doesn't buy groceries you're not getting paid.

Change the classification to reflect it as a labour of love. You'll get more respect.


S

 

[G7]

Changed . . .

 

[Mouseferatu]

Or you could simply ask me to clarify my position, as you did yours. Changing the thread to "unpaid" is a start.

However, I stand by my basic position, which is this: Anything which is going to be sold, as opposed to given away for free, should pay its authors, pure and simple. Anything less is unprofessional. Authors are underappreciated enough as it is without contributing to the mindset/perspective that, because it's fun, it's not also work deserving of payment.

What you seem to see as "negativity," I see simply as advising authors--both established and up-and-coming--not to devalue themselves or their own work by buying into the notion that it's not worth compensation for the effort they put into it.

It doesn't matter if your books is a "scheme." I never claimed it was. But you're selling it, not giving it away. Therefore, you should pay your contributors. It's as simple as that.

 

[G7]

How much money do you think we're going to make on this? We'll be lucky to break even. Regardless, choosing not to contribute is one thing, pushing others with your negative opinion is another thing entirely. Yes, that is "negativism," any way you want to spin it. Especially since I have done nothing to provoke you.

However, I suppose that if anyone has a differing opinion of yours, they're simply wrong, and you're right.