Fantasy Arms Race, Round Two

[Tonguez]

So should someone start a new thread? Can we expect major technological, magical or cultural developments in the time skipped?

1. Nah I say we just post a new round in this thread - and see just how long a thread can get before the Server explodes

2. The Ta'Jinn/Cressia conflict took place at about the late bronze/early iron age equivalent on Earth and saw a number of inovations being introduced and most of the major technologies of civilisation being at least 'known' (ie City building, Roading, Wheel, Sail, Metal Work, Agriculture, Domestic animals, Religion and Civil Society as well as Divine and Arcane Magics). We now have the chance to advance the societies somewhat the question is how?

I personally don't see anything like the Dark Ages or Medieval Society arising from the cultures we have presented here and that is a dilemma (or is it?) The DnD Standard is a pseudo-medieval-type world but are we likely to get that? Should we impose artificial conditions to make the Medieval setting happen or should we take this in some other direction?

Hmm - Anyway next Round: Iron Age - Romance of the Three Kingdoms

 

[GladiusNP]

Moving on does seem to be worthwhile - someone mentioned bigger monsters just attempting to top the other side, and that would eventually be a dead end (ie. when the Ausel sell Cressia the Tarrasque.)

Anyway, maybe the Field Father makes his point very brutally - he strips the high druidess of her spells. She journeys to the Huntmasters of the Cressian forces encamped on the border, and reveals what she has learned - the zombies are an abomination, something confirmed by the Stempan clerics. The last two are destroyed by the Cressians.

Also I liked the point that the Ta'Jinn hate outsiders - especially the Heaven River troops - they just threw off the rule of demon-worshippers. If they learn that the earth elementals are extra-planar, the Ausel aren't going to be too popular. I think that Thelia should probably be destroyed - the Ta'Jinn aren't into annihilation (they liberated Heaven River), and the viciousness of the Ausel raiders unleashed into the city sicken the Ta'Jinn. Also ties up any loose ends via the Stempan cities - leaving them much more united, now they've seen what their religious wars can really do. The Ausel are politely told by the Ta'Jinn their services are no longer required.

Moving forward? I don't really have many suggestions. I can picture the Ausel and Stempa (aided by the Cressians) keeping up a naval border, with occasional raids again from the Ausel. This common bond, along with proximity, makes the Cressians and Stempans get along pretty well. The Cressians are going to pretty much keep to their current borders, and the Ta'Jinn are poised develop trade routes from the Heaven River to Cressia and vice versa.

Maybe we should take the window out another step further. What are the other four Tamarchs up to? What other lands do the Ta'Jinn rule? What is north of the Stempans - maybe real barabarians (like the goths to the north of Rome). Let's chuck in some demi-humans, and also make sure that writing becomes a part of the civilizations. Sorry if this is redundant with any posts above - a little tired.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

There are a few things that I would like to see as we move into the next round.

First: a list of the innovations that each of the cultures acquired from this round on line with the list of cultural qualities we created for this round. Something like:

Cressians: indirect fire, dispersed mobility, aerial power, inclement weather fighting, anti-magic warfare

Ta'jinn: silvered weapons, terrain holding outposts, increased siege sophisitication, dispersed use of magic, night fighting, anti-magic warfare

Second: a system of cultural exchange between the Ta'jinn, Cressians, and Stempans. I'd like to see the Ta'jinn and Cressians develop a dwarf-elf style relationship where they are alternately friendly and antagonistic but always helping each other out in times of great stress. The Stempans could simply end up trading with both great powers and with garrisons and auxilaries in all the nations and in their nation.

Third: a real state of chaos created in the no-man's land between Cressia and the Khanate. Not only was this the site of the massive three way battle between Cressian, the Auselen, and the Ta'jinn, but the area has been flooded with refugees from Auselen action in Stempa and warping magical energies from the Auselen themselves.

Fourth: a political understanding between the three cultures against the Auselen.

After the Auselen role was uncovered by the Stempans and the Ta'jinn and Cressians reached a state of peace the major powers discovered that they had the following powers. Firstly, Stempa was in terrible shape. While the allies of Cressia and the Khanate were still free they had been drained by the war and with the exception of those states most closely associated with oracles who had provided them with prudent leadership the rest were either in states of internal disorder fostered by the Auselen or directly under their control. The empty quarter was in a state of total chaos that threatens all of the three landlocked powers. And all of the powers are agreed that they must rebuild and discover a means to deal with each other and Auselen.

The remaining free and stable states of Stempa form the Concord of Stempa which ends internal feuding between them while maintaining most of the soveriegnty of the individual states. This concord is heavily dominated by the oracles though the allied states of the Khanate and Cressia also possess some influence. All three states then form a joint command in Stempa in which the Oracles have a priveleged position as the neutral party and the party to have suffered most and earliest discovered the truth of the war. This command works to shape policy to check the aggression of the other Stempan states and to create security in the Empty Quarter.

The Ta'jinn devote a Tamarch to the alliance, half of which is dedicated to patrolling the empty quarter and the other half of which is put under Cressian command as a reperation for the war, as the stronger power with a sense of mission the Ta'jinn do feel at fault, and to help the Cressians develop a means by which to hurt the Auselen. The Cressians work to develop fortified borders around the empty quarter for all parties and also send some men to work with the Khanate as a form of reperation. The Stempans work with all powers and establish outposts inside the quarter as a means to try to help their people in the area and watch the Auselen outposts that have also taken root.

Love the suggestion about Stempa as a diverse culture, and the deities of the Cressians finally stepping in to end the conflict.

Sorry about the convoluted means of keeping the Ta'jinn around. I just want to see how their tactics would respond to the second round as well.

 

[The Goblin King]

I think it would be cool to keep going without forcing the world into a pseudo-middle age. However, I'm not sure how to proceed. What would this alternate history look like without the roman empire? I don't think the Stempa are up to the job. The other nations are too strong to be subjucated, even if the Stempa had the inclination.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Oh Yeah, we are way far away from the Middle Ages. I was thinking that this last conflict might have been middle to late bronze age.

Talking Egyptians versus Hittites and Minoans versus Myceneans sort of stuff.

There's forever to go till you hit the iron age and Classical Greece and Persia let alone Rome and then the Middle Ages.

 

[s/LaSH]

Yup, we're still talking about a small-scale, early civilisation scenario here. The area of conflict is barely a thousand miles across, remember; I've always thought of it as being similar to western Turkey (look on a map sometime, I think the distances roughly match up). Empires could spring up on the other side of the world right now and not be seen for two thousand years in this area.

What interests me are the other Planes. The Prime Material is the home for this event, but the Auselen have already started poking around in Elemental Earth (and have probably known of Elemental Fire even longer). The planes will be of great tactical importance later, I'm certain - especially when political forces on the Prime discover political forces in the multiverse. Good and Evil haven't really come into it, so far, not as huge cosmic forces, but boy, when they do...

(And my ominously gestating idea for the next round really plays upon that idea.)

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Recall that the Ta'jinn and the people of the Celestial River have dealt with demons in their prior history.

I would also love to see the work on Stempan military forces continue. If they have a fair mix of humanoids in their population they can field some very heavy infantry and be good night attackers.

Did we decide whether or not the Stempans have mastered some rudimentary iron work?

I'm thinking they should have access to heavy armor at the very least. Probably banded or splint mail and certainly chest plates and other simple plate armors.

Cressians have some studded leather, leather, breast plate, and hide. Ta'jinn have scale, quilted, and breast plate.

Have any of these cultures developed chain mail yet? The Celts had it pretty early, but even that is iron age.

 

[Mr. Draco]

Well, I just found this thread, and finished reading it (wow, that took a while).

If it's not too late, I wanted to point out a viable, and possibly very effective tactic for the Ta'jinn against the Cressians. (iirc- the stempa were really into alchemy as one of their advantages)

So, the Ta'jinn buy/steal/take from the Stempa an alchemical secret: alchemists fire. This substance can be put in vials where it won't ignite, then, if thrown, breaks and lights things on fire. Also, it's very difficult to put out (as any proper self-respecting, burning jelly will be). In a flash of inspiration, the Ta'jinn develop a startlingly effective new tactic: bombers.

Handing out many (between 10-20) vials of the alchemists fire to each Godsblood, they send them out in groups to attack Cressian cities. Each group has 3 Godsblood riders with shortbows, and 2 with the alchemists fire ammunition. The 3 with shortbows help protect the "bombers" from both ground attack, and the Cressian giant eagles. As a plus, the giant eagles can't engage at range, and even then are still at a disadvantage due to inexperience fighting other aerial foes. Likewise the Cressian ground forces, being experienced at throwing spears/shooting bows at ground targets are pretty much out of luck against griffon riders hundreds of feet up. Then, when the griffon riders fly over a fairly major Cressian city, they dump all the alchemists fire vials and head back to the Ta'jinn camps. From the number of Griffons, I'd say that there could be two such "groups" of 5 Griffons with Godsblood riders, with enough left over to still hold up a good scouting force.

From the looks of Cressian society, they'd have a hard time fighting these fires. Firstly, they have a cultural aversion to fire, meaning they'd be much less experienced at dealing with it than the Jongans in the last round. Besides just this, their primary building material is... wood. Wood burns. Wood burns faster when there's a bunch of undergrowth in the area. Cressia has a bunch of undergrowth. Offhand, I'd say that the Cressians would be very quickly looking at major brushfires where a few of the biggest cities used to be. This would cause chaos amongst the Cressian forces fighting the Ta'jinn, and even worse effects would be visible within the populace, who now no longer know when they're safe, even in their homes. After all, any moment now, fire might fall from the sky, burning their city like the others.

Major advantage: Ta'jinn.

This success leads to the Ta'jinn focusing on improving and consolidating their control of the skies.

 

[Mr. Draco]

Another quick note: The Ta'jinn notice their biggest advantages are their maneuverability, whether it's their Griffon/Godsblood riders, or Centaurs, the one thing the Cressians can't match is their sheer speed. This would lead to the development of quick response teams, of say a couple of griffons/godsblood riders with alchemists fire, or teams of elite centaurs. Their high speeds would let them quickly get to areas that need defense, or even intercept the attacking Cressian forces before they even reached the Ta'jinn main battle lines. Meanwhile, while the attack is being stalled by the quick response forces, Ta'jinn units are moving into the fight, quickly brining even the numerical odds in favor of the Ta'jinn and winning the day. As for the Cressian plant-growth/rose bush lined homeland, well, alchemists fire works on that too.

I see the Cressians being burned out, quickly and efficently.

 

[Tonguez]

Another quick note: The Ta'jinn notice their biggest advantages are their maneuverability, whether it's their Griffon/Godsblood riders, or Centaurs, the one thing the Cressians can't match is their sheer speed. This would lead to the development of quick response teams, of say a couple of griffons/godsblood riders with alchemists fire, or teams of elite centaurs. Their high speeds would let them quickly get to areas that need defense, or even intercept the attacking Cressian forces before they even reached the Ta'jinn main battle lines. Meanwhile, while the attack is being stalled by the quick response forces, Ta'jinn units are moving into the fight, quickly brining even the numerical odds in favor of the Ta'jinn and winning the day. As for the Cressian plant-growth/rose bush lined homeland, well, alchemists fire works on that too.

I see the Cressians being burned out, quickly and efficently.

Actually the Cressians have the Manouverability advantage not the Ta'Jinn. A Centaurs base speed is 50 however a Werewolf (Deltanes) base speed is also 50 and a Barbarian at 40 is only slightly slower. The deciding factor here however is size Centaurs as large Creatures are bigger targets and thus easier to hit. +1 Cressians

Your development of Griffon Bombers however is a brillaint tactic (and shows the value of new blood) and bound to be absolutely devestating to Cressia until such time as they develop weather control magics - they already have Fog and have used Wind at least once historically (now gimme a Cloudkill and a few whirlwinds too)

Age of the Empires

iirc correctly the Cressia-Ta'Jinn conflict took place in something equivalent to the late bronze era 1000 BC on Earth. After the rise of the first urban civilisations but before the widespread use of iron (sort of the era covered in the Scorpion King movie)

If we go forward a step to say about 500 BC this puts us firmly into the 'Classical' period - Sidhartha Gautama (Buddha) is born in 563 BC; Athens has developed Democracy, the Warring States period occurs in China and the Jews have returned from the Babylonian Exile. Babylon itself is conquered by Persia and the Persian Empire goes on to conquer Egypt but fails to take Greece at the
Battle of Marathon in 490BC

(ps read this for a good summary of military tactics for the era viz

The Persians had a massive infantry and cavalry which included 48,000 men, outnumbering the Athenians 4:1.

Despite the fact that the Persians were the striking army, their fighting style was defensive. Their main weapon was the bow and arrow, and their key tactic was to wait until the enemy came close, at which time the Persians would “bury” them a heavy barrage of bows and arrows. The Athenians, on the other hand, had a more offensive doctrine. Their main weapon was the long, heavy spear, and they shielded themselves with heavy armament including helmets, shields, and breastplates. They favored close combat battle formations, lacking both cavalry and bows.

)

Oh yeah
The Olympics was started in 776 BC - perhaps the Stempa-Cressian-Ta'Jinn alliance hold a four yearly competiton as a means of maintaining peaceful relations between themselves!.

And I say give the Stempans Iron