Fantasy Arms Race, Round Two

This has been a great read, and I agree the current war is winding down. I'd like to see a few addendums to the course of events following the Battle of Mists.

On the mainland: The Cressians got hammered by fire. They have time and time again. So while the introduction of mist and rain inducing magics is the logical developement of the Field Father druid, the time has come to put the Fire Cult into play - a small group druids who abandon the proscription against the use of fire. They've been around for years, but as scattered individuals. The Battle of Mists brings them together and reaffirms their belief that bronze and flame are truely fit weapons for the gods. This group would be eager to snatch up the fallen Jonga weapons, and possibly make contact with the enemy.

Meanwhile, the Cressians won - proof positive of the superiority of the culture, and it's taboos. I think we should see a hardening of religious stricture. Undoubtedly the druid class are the saviors of all the Cressian people. They should firm up their political power, while rejecting many of the Jonga's inventions ("didn't save them, what do we need them for?"). Lessons learned from the war will shape the design of Cressian villages, and I think that the use of agressive plants will help fortify them with active sentries. The tree forts also seemed wildly successful and their use will be expanded, possibly leading to the development of larger, multi-tree fortresses. Plant-based poisons (derived initially from roses and nettles) are develped by the Field Father's servants, and offered to the Wolf Mother's creatures to help cement their common unity. These (weak) poisons come into use to bolster the elite lycanthrope warriors, making the Wolf Mother and her servants the policing arm of the society, possibly enforcing the dictates of the druids (and hounding the Fire Cult). The Wolf Mother's druids expand on the concept of using animal for mobility (learned from the whale-ships) and begin to field riding animal (I'm in favor of really big dear, but that's just the memories of Mononoke Hime talking :)). Again, this is shared with the Field Father clergy, possibly with each group developing a limited number of mounted troops (FF use dear riders as messengers, WM using wolves as individual raider/champions).

The Cressians, flush with victory, launch a (hasty) attack on the invaders... Only to have it anihilated utterly.

Off shore: The Jonga's current leadership is in disarray. Their gamble to crush the mainlanders in a single blow has failed and now they are desparate. The continued power of divne magic of the primitives has bent or broken everything the Jonga have come up with.

Now is when the Clerics of the Rival Brothers come forward. The Flame Brother has always been respected, if not loved, as he who gave the Jonga crafts, like metal working and tactics like the Singers. Less respected by Jonga's warrior elite, the Ocean Brother was always the champion of the harvest, the controler of weather and the feeder of men. The tension between these two beliefs is what has spurred the Jongans on to battle so often with their neighbors. The long dominace of the Flame Brother comes to an end with the destruction of the army. When the retalitory fleet of the Cressians arives, the Ocean Brother gives his faithful a miracle, and the (small) fleet is destroyed, abruptly and decisively.

New leadership is installed (new generals, posibly a new royalty). The Jongans make their island a forbiden place, killing anything that even comes near it, but also forgoing their agression. Wizards and bards continue to work on fire spells, but the most important thing is dominating the sea surrounding the island. The Jongans will rise again, but in a new form...

...And the handful of Flame Priests and Flame worshiping wizards and singers among the old order's upper echlons? Driven out of course. Sent to the cursed mainland to die among the savages the stirred up.

So when Flame Priest and Fire Cult meet... Boom. An new faction that hates both sides, but has some of the most important secrets of each at their disposal. Now if they could just find some hill folk to enslave...
 

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Wow. A LOT of great stuff, here. I'm away from the thread for a few days, and...wow. Great stuff.

Awakened cavalry...brilliant! This makes sense for the animal-loving Cressians; they have been fighting alongside animals as long as they have existed as a people, and it makes sense that their Druidic war-priests would Awaken their companions when they have the power. This would have a major impact on the effectiveness of mounted cavalry...the cavalry units are effective with or without a rider! Imagine Cressian werewolves mounted on sentient Dire Stags. The riders charge into formation, fighting from "horse"-back, then, once the enemy ranks are broken, they leap out of the saddle and tear into them. Normally mounted cavalry can't dismount, since their horses would have bolted, or panicked, and generally been unable to cope with the battlefield without a rider. Awakened cavalry could maintain tight formations with or without a rider (with the herd instincts of a deer, they'd probably be BETTER at holding a formation than their Cresian riders!). Circle around to the enemy's flank, round up escapees, there are tons of tactical options open to them. Add to this chariots carrying a Jongan mage and several bodyguards, and an elite Cressian force (even a small one) would be deadly. They alrady have the tactics from their sea-chariots to fall back on, I don't think it would be a stretch for them to come up with land chariots. And with Awakened mounts pulling them, you don't need a pilot (driver? What do you call the guy that steers a chariot, anyway? Charioteer?), so you can load them up entirely with combatants.

An application of assimilated Jongan mind-magic that would be deadly in massed combat: the Fear spell. Targeted at key points in the enemy line, a few mages could cause them to break ranks and run. And, as has been said earlier, once morale is lost, the battle is over. In the century following the Battle of Mists and Fire, there's no real threat to the Cresians and they would probably keep a fairly small army (still able to field thousands of troops, but probably less than their neigbors). With tactics like these available, though, I think they could get away with smaller armies.

I like Dr. Strangemonkey's four-guild arrangement for the Cressian government, and I think it would have some interesting results. The Wanderer's Guild is what intrigues me the most. As the people responsible for ommunication between outlying villages, they would probably take to mounted riders as well (since it allows them to move faster). Maybe the "pony express" is made up of Awakened ponies, carrying messages from village to village? This may be too much use of the Awaken spell, but it WOULD be tremendously useful to a people who rely on animals as much as the Cresians do. The Wanderer's guild would also have strong naval presence, as explorers, and woud be most likely be the first-contact point with the Cresians' neigbors. Lastly, the Wanderers would be most likely to develop long-range communication magic (maybe THEY unlock the secrets of scrying????)

The Dog-mother's Warrior guild would be the home of the beastmen. I see them going in one of two directions. They MIGHT maintain their status as blessed holy warriors, and have a status like medeival knights. A bizarre court of lycnathropic nobles might form. Immediately after the Jongan Wars, the beastmen would be recognized as war heroes, and given lavish rewards. They would have been reluctant to give them up, and as powerful as they are, and obviously having the blessing of the Dog Mother, they would have the clout to hold onto it throughout the years. Now, in times of relative peace, maybe the general populus is getting resentful of their erstwhile protectors?

The Scribe Guild, made up of predominantly assimilated-Jongans, might form an Academy, to teach new students the Arcane Magics of their ancestors, that their arts wouldn't be forgotten. The Cresians would suport this, and gradually come to be the masters of both Arcane and Druidic magic. A very powerful monopoly.

Morgenstern, I could definitely see disaffected members of the Cressian population (maybe frustrated by the favored treatment of the Beastmen) joining up with dissadent, fugitive Jongan fire mages. The deep caverns and tunnels of the Hill People (who have lingered there out of sight and biding their time for centuries) would make an ideal hiding place for them. All three factions would be united in their hatred of the Cresian Shapechangers. Maybe this is the group that, after centuries of aborted efforts and 11-th hour reconsiderations by both Cresian and Jongan, finally goes through with a Summoning, and makes contact with an Outer Plane. They hate the Cresian shapechangers so much, what might the demons transform THEM into?
 

I, too, apologize for the long post. This topic is just TOO COOL!

RangerWickett, we're all eager to hear what kind of neigboring countries the Cresians' explorers might find. If they're going to stand up to these bruisers, the new nation must have SOMETHING wicked up its' sleeve...:cool:
 

I hate to be a stickler about terminology… no, who am I kidding? I love to be a stickler about terminology. :) In any case, we absolutely should not be talking about “guilds” at this stage of the game, and especially not among the Cresians. A guild is a group of craftsmen brought together by shared economic interest; it’s closest in nature to the modern labor union. Cresian society would have nothing like it, and the use of the word calls up all sorts of inappropriate references.

The Cresians could easily have various orders, brotherhoods, societies or priesthoods… but not guilds. OK?

And yes, RangerWickett, we’re all waiting for you to give us more information on the new scenario; I’d recommend starting a new thread. You’re still in charge; there’s no surrendering the reins of power for you!

- Eric
 

Too much stuff! Okay, I'll set aside about an hour tonight after I get back from DareDevil to reply to this thread and post ideas, because there's a lot of stuff to pick and choose from.

A few quick thoughts, though.

No centaurs among the Cresians. They might breed stronger animals, but no biomancy yet. Also, from the climate described (river delta, fairly lush), I'm not sure if you'd really see stags in this area. But hey, if a group of Stag Knights had a celebration, would it be a stag party?

Cresians can have cavalry within the allotted time span. Horses are most likely, unless you can think of something else? Great wolves? Deer?

Very very few animals would be awakened. Maybe just a few dozen, though that's not considering that sentient creatures have been created for at least several decades, so perhaps some pairs of awakened animals bred to produce offspring.

I like the idea about the capital city being sprawling, with actual farmland inside it, and lots of thornbushes and such. It's not so much a city, just a nicely organized swath of countryside, with large walls built in two or three concentric rings. It's not really highly defensible, because the walls are really too big to defend them in the entirety, but aesthetically, the arrangment pleases me. (We need an official name for the capital city.)

The Cresians assimilated the Jonga, and a few other nearby societies, though most of the others didn't require as much effort and conflict. Some Jonga of course fled, and there's certainly bitterness and resentment in some areas, so don't think this country's a utopia.

The Cresians do use bronze now. Because they know that they have rivals in neighboring countries, they keep an army of a few thousand, including several hundred cavalry, and a few groups of Beastmen. (Do we have an official name for them too?)

I'll post more later.
 

Ciaran said:
I hate to be a stickler about terminology… no, who am I kidding? I love to be a stickler about terminology. :) In any case, we absolutely should not be talking about “guilds” at this stage of the game, and especially not among the Cresians. A guild is a group of craftsmen brought together by shared economic interest; it’s closest in nature to the modern labor union. Cresian society would have nothing like it, and the use of the word calls up all sorts of inappropriate references.

The Cresians could easily have various orders, brotherhoods, societies or priesthoods… but not guilds. OK?

And yes, RangerWickett, we’re all waiting for you to give us more information on the new scenario; I’d recommend starting a new thread. You’re still in charge; there’s no surrendering the reins of power for you!

- Eric

Oh, I very much agree. The only reason I was using the term guild is because I wanted something wildly inappropriate enough to be almost generic. Plus I thought it would be easier to add religious implications to guilds than economic applications to cults or orders.

I like your suggestion for societies, but what we really need are colorful new terms and titles.

Something I forgot to point out is that nearly all of the more 'sacred' members of Cressian society such as the Celestial Dogs and wolf men would probably live in the 'market' cities. I think the raging beast warriors would probably occupy be organized into something like the Jaguar and Eagle knights of Aztec/Maztican society. There would probably a large sacred enclosure through which they could safely run wild. I love the idea of the Celestial Dogs freely roaming anywhere.

There's a book called Shardik that describes a very primitive culture with a sacred bear. An important part of the bear cult is that the bear be allowed near total freedom so that the religious might better interpret his actions. The book deals with the bad things that happen when that freedom isn't maintained.

An earlier post also mentioned that the Cressians' would develop spread out cities the size of modern metropoli, and I very much agree.

I could easily see the area of village groups surrounding a market city equaling something like a large modern city such as the Dallas/FortWorth metroplex, particularly if they had a well developed canal system. The complex surrounding the first ancient religious city might be the size of the orginal nation with several feeder market cities and a market time population reaching numbers of half a million or more.

I also think the idea of the druids developing systematic forestry is absolutely dead on. Many ancient and medieval cultures had very advanced theories and systems of land management. Often far superior to the systems that were in place in the early part of the modern period. In the Southwest people are still studying Pueblo soil conservation techniques, and Californians certainly profit from very old traditions of systematic burning when they bother to practice them.

I love the idea of awakened animals as more or less fully enfranchised members of the Cressian nation. I can really see them associated with the various societies, something that would directly impact thier utility and give the societies an increased sense of mystery and prestige within the larger social structure. I mean you already know that Flower Brother Renhaws is special because he can move thickets without disturbing their branches, but you really know it when he speaks to his raven as an equal and the raven talks back.

The possibilities for chariots that people are talking about are just amazing! I have no idea why this hasn't been developed in a product before. Mage chariots should be something every adventurer should know and fear.
 

Some suggestions for other Nations

1. Scythia - The Land of Iron, Scythians are the only culture with Iron, a well disciplined military structure and less reliance on magic. Probably the most advanced Military nation and have chariots, heavy infantry and seige weapons. Oh and give them Giants too (ie Large size creatures so we test the effects of reach and rockthrowing and stuff...)

2. Kem - the Magiocracy where powerful Scorcerers hold power (no Wizards as yet)and Arcane magics - from Illusion to Fireballs- are freely used in combat

3. Knossos (Minos)- The island Nation settled by the rebel Jongans/Cressians. The Druids of this Nation did turn to Biomancy and have created Minotaur, Centaur and Merfolk soldiers. They use other magics that involve enhancing or transforming creatures (This is to introduce Monster Scenarios in warfare)

4. Aryas (Indus Valley) - A nation with a deeply ingrained aestetic religion. Monks and Psionics
 
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Reguarding the biomancy I dont think I ment it as much as a they did it on purpose but were similar to how the WereWolves were created as a Diety blessing similar things might happen. perhaps this is how the Knossos (Minos) that was suggested turned to. With the Druid's natural wildshape ability starting at 5th level effectively wildshape is potentially common place. with these more fenatical group of cressian renegade druids and Jongan Fire Wizards. the deep faith in their cause might inspire a new Diety. an agressive Animan (animal/man) diety. Setting his new followers up on a pedistal by transforming them into minotaurs, centaurs, wemics and such. Perhaps transforming maybe changing many of them into wemics and/or Were-Tigers. a Feline diety opposed to the Dog Mother. Perhaps the feline aspect being derived somewhat from the Jongans. The renegade druids rebelling against the dog embrace the cat goddess with fire in her eyes. granting these people their own beastmen (WereTigers).

in reguards to the centaurs for the Cressians was that they would if the Centuars were not created as a result of the Cressians 'NEED' like the Werewolves that the cressians would actively ally themsevlves with creature-cultures like the Centuars and Wemics. Wemics are sapposably plains creatures as well. I'm suggesting these races simple for lack of a MM handy and also just to give a base of ideas not encouraging any one idea but throwing out several.
 

Why the continued insistence on psionics? Most players don't even have the Psionics Handbook. Again, I vote that we leave psionics out of this.

Thus far RangerWickett has avoided using the names of real-world cultures, and I suspect he will continue the trend. This is ultimately his world; let's at least let him continue to name things. He's done a good job so far. (And insofar as we're looking at real world culture names, I suspect that he derived "Cresia" from Crete, so Knossos/Minos seems pretty redundant. :) )

Zephyrus said:
Reguarding the biomancy I dont think I ment it as much as a they did it on purpose but were similar to how the WereWolves were created as a Diety blessing similar things might happen. perhaps this is how the Knossos (Minos) that was suggested turned to. With the Druid's natural wildshape ability starting at 5th level effectively wildshape is potentially common place. with these more fenatical group of cressian renegade druids and Jongan Fire Wizards. the deep faith in their cause might inspire a new Diety. an agressive Animan (animal/man) diety. Setting his new followers up on a pedistal by transforming them into minotaurs, centaurs, wemics and such. Perhaps transforming maybe changing many of them into wemics and/or Were-Tigers.
If my god started changing my friends and family into monsters for no good reason, I think I'd go find another god, and possibly another tribe, thank you very much. :rolleyes:

- Eric
 

No psionics; monuments; lingering Jongan cultural influence

Ciaran said:
Why the continued insistence on psionics? Most players don't even have the Psionics Handbook. Again, I vote that we leave psionics out of this.

I second this.

--

One thing I'd like to see in Cresian society: Ziggurats of some sort. If they're all about aggriculture, I can see them developing something like the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. Or giant grain silos. Or huge cisterns for use during dry periods. Whatever it is, I think it'd be cool if we added a few landmarks to the cresians.

--

I also think it'd be cool if the Jongan island, though assimilated, retained some sort of cultural identity/lingering independence. Something like what we've got with England/Scotland. Perhaps while the main Cresian society focuses on farming and land-based expansion, the former Jongans maintain their fascination with mechanical things and the sea. Maybe they develop sails, and start wondering if there are any other landmasses besides Cresia...

-z
 

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