Fantasy Arms Race, Round Two

[Tonguez]

Erlik stamped his hooves impatiently as he waited in the enclosure outside the Khans tent.

"How long does it take to decide" he grumbled to his companion Baladur "my report was clear enough wasn't it?"

"Patience" Baladur advised the younger Ta'jinn warrior "the Khan and his advisors need time to consider your words - especially if those who attacked were aided by demons"
"Oh they were demons" Erlik grimaced at the memory "terrible beasts with great fangs and claws, and magic that twisted the very earth against us - they are vile and must be destroyed!"

**********Meanwhile far to the south in Cressia*************

"They were abominations Holy Mother" Amres explained to the High Priestess "no doubt the product of meddling with the natural order. Their lower bodies were like horses, but the heads had been removed and in their place grew the head and torso of a man. We were not ready for that horror when we first encountered them but we beleive that with the blessing of the Blessed Mother we can go forth and exterminate them all."

"Do not be so keen to destroy" the High Priestess replied calmly "first we must learn more about them - their nature and their origin, only then will we confront them"

 

[s/LaSH]

Further aftermath of the battle:

The Ta'jinn and Cresians both withdraw the lion's share of their support from the front lines of the Stempan conflict. (They don't want to fight demons just yet.) The Stempans on either side are demoralised by the retreat of their allies and retreat to fortified positions. The war winds down... for now.

If people don't like Delta, what about Detanes (sing. Detane)? It sounds a little more 'cresian' to me, at least. Anyway, they'll be the primary long-range scouts of the Cresians, because in animal form they're almost invulnerable and very inconspicuous. Detanic scouts penetrate to the Western edges of Stempa, following the Ta'jinn supply trains, and report that there are seemingly endless numbers of these equine abominations, alongside soldiers and cavalry dressing in unusual fashion, stranger than even Stempan garb. The logical conclusion is that they are an enemy from beyond Stempa, probably in large numbers.

The course of action advised is to engage in a flanking strike to cut their lines of supply. Cresia has a narrow corridor between the Stempan hills and the mountains that separate Cresia from the Ta'jinn in the first place; they prepare the bulk of their forces to attack and destroy the Ta'jinn passing across the moors, and hope to encircle and destroy their armies already in Stempa in this fashion.

At first, only supply convoys are to be attacked, during the day. Deltanes sneak up and attack in hybrid form, disrupting any defenders. When the defenders are in retreat or melee, Cresian archers and druids break cover and begin bombardment; nobody retreats through Entanglement, especially not centaurs, and Deltanes don't take damage from arrows. If the Cresian force has enough casters, they also charm the Ta'jinn pack/wagon animals and cause trouble like that. Most of the attack is a single intense archery bombardment; the Cresians are all trained in the use of bows (easily made with wood shaping druids), and can defend themselves if they find themselves facing a centaur charge.

At least, that's the plan.

The Ta'jinn, meanwhile, send out their griffin scouts at high altitude. They don't spot supply lines, which puzzles them (Cresians can easily live off the land with magical support), but they do see a lush and fertile land to the South, with sprawling cities and teeming waterways. A little investigation reveals that these people have large temples devoted to canines, which confirms their suspicions: Cresia is a land ruled by demons, just as the River of Heaven once was. The Khan of the Ta'jinn makes an executive decision: The Stempan war is not as potentially profitable as conquering Cresia (even if they take a few city-states as payment, Cresia is much richer). He justifies it by proclaiming this a holy war of liberation, and sends a few elite wings from his personal Tamarch to oversee the invasion. Ta'jinn forces begin to move South from Stempa, ironically parallelling the northern advance of the Cresian attack, only a hundred miles to the West.

In the interim, the Ta'jinn begin to be plagued by wolf-demons on the nights of the full moon. These creatures are mindless but still fearsome opponents, and nobody knows where they came from or where they go after the full moon. This simply hardens their resolve.

(Does anyone know whether monstrous humanoids such as Centaurs can be afflicted with lycanthropy? The MM, under 'Curse of Lycanthropy', says any humanoid creature can be affected. I think it would be cool if we ruled that centaurs, too, can be affected, but I'm not certain.)

 

[ajanders]

New Wars, New Names

I've always rather liked the term "Dog Warriors" for the Cresian shapechangers, myself. It's not perhaps original, but it describes what they are.
In further news, my brain has snapped at the visual of a half-man, half-wolf, half-horse creature. Unless someone wants to stat out a new aberration for the thread, I vote centaurs should remain immune to lycanthropy. It seems especially apt in this case as the Dog Warriors are not diseased, but blessed with the favor of the Dog Goddess, who is obviously not handing out any favors to the Taji'in.
If lycanthropy can be transmitted to centaurs, then the Taji'in are going to be in a world of hurt: that's effectively magical germ warfare. Lycanthropy is very difficult to cure if you don't have access to some powerful clerics, which the Taji'in really don't. It's even difficult to detect without magical means, leaving them no real way to start treating the disease.

The Cresian raids on supply convoys don't go nearly as well as expected: the Taji'in archers are more skilled than the Cresians, though the Cresian longbow is more powerful than the Taji'in shortbow. As the archery duel dwindles down to much more of a stalemate than either side is very happy with, the Taji'in adapt a convoy system, consolidating their caravans into longer trains and using their griffins as aerial reconnassiance units. The Cresians can stay out of sight, but not while setting up a massed archery ambush.
Finally the senior Cresian druid throws up his hands and asks the Dog Mother for advice. The supply road cuts through the mountains and likely winds along the side of them. If he loads up on Transmute Rock to Mud spells, he can likely wipe the whole road off the side of the cliff in about a week. Is this too much of a disruption of nature?
Meanwhile, the Taji'in wing has entered Cresia and is having their own problems. The Cresian rose hedges have grown thick and strong since the days of the Jongans: what repels formations of armed infantry holds back a centaur cavalry charge pretty well too, and the other defenses meant to handle a large formation of infantry prove equally effective against a dispersed force of cavalry. Even massed cavalry charges fail to pierce the ancient hedges.
Taji'in archery serves to bottle the Cresians up behind their fortress walls, but the Taji'in find they only control the ground under their feet. If the ground has plants growing out of it, they might not even do that well.
The Taji'in do discover that fire arrows generously applied can do real damage to the Cresians, but the Taji'in general sees a small problem. He sends his own message back to the Khan.
"We burn, than we pillage. This way doesn't work well. The reverse order doesn't work at all. Are you sure this is turning out to be profitable?"

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

At this point, with two invasion forces in the works, I would love it if someone would throw together a 10,000 man Cressian force or at least a more general system of Cressian military organization.

I noticed that in my last pose, I basically assumed that the Cressians organize themselves in a similar manner to the Ta'jinn and that really makes no sense except that I wrote up the Ta'jinn force of 10,000. When I really think the Cressians would have their own standardized system since they have such militia forces and four unique professional organizations.

If I do it, I'm afraid it will just look like an infantry version of the Mongol system I used to build up the Ta'jinn. The organization would have to account for the four septs, aha a better term, that dominate Cressian professional organization and enable the Cressians to make use of their tradition of extreme tactical flexibility, but otherwise I think things are pretty open. I don't even know what historical organization would make a good parellel.

If anyone has any good knowledge of light infantry organizational practices please share, and I love both the suggested terms for the lycanthropes.

 

[Tuerny]

Hey, I just want to say this is a truly superb thread and I would have loved to get involved if I had been aware of it earlier. As it is I am going to just lurk and enjoy it.

Good show!

 

[Tonguez]

heavy infantry >defeats> heavy cavalry
(eg Spear Walls/Pikes vs Cavalry Charge)
heavy cavalry >defeats> light infantry
(eg Charge and Speed)
light infantry >defeats> light cavalry
(eg range and cover)
light cavalry >defeats> both heavy infantry and heavy cavalry (Skirmish, Harassment eg Mongols)


The relative prosperity and peace that Cressia has had for many years means that it does not have a large standing army. However the history of past invasions does mean that each village maintains a militia of warriors who may be conscripted by members of the Warrior and/or Wanderers Sept when required. The Four Septs are of course nominally part of the Church Hierarchy reporting to a Druid-Overseer, although each is given a degree of autonomy within its own function.

The Village Militia make up 50% of the Cressian Forces during wartime and comprise a mixture of Infantry units using a variety of slings, bows, javelins, spears, axes and swords. Spears predominate amongst the heavy infantry units and are used primarily as defensive formations, providing cover and breaking enemy ranks and allowing the skirmish archers to counterattack. Mobility is encouraged Cressian warfare and running is the national sport

The Warrior and/or Wanderer Sept are highly specialized forces who make up the backbone of the Cressian Military together the comprise approximately 35% of the Cressian Forces.
The Warrior Sept is an Elite Order made up primarily of Barbarians and Dog Warriors. They serve as bodyguards to the High-Priestess and have a ‘policing’ role in society, they are responsible for training the Militia.
The Warrior Sept often act as heavy infantry (wielding spears and axes to great effect) however they also have the speed and mobility of light infantry and this is their great advantage.

The Wanderers Sept is not as structured as the Warrior Sept, due in no small part to the diverse nature of its membership which includes Couriers (Slingers and Archers who function as Light Infantry), Naval Forces (Marines & Scurvy Sea Dogs), Deltane-Rangers*, and a few Animal Allies. The Wanderers Sept are masters of the road and field able to operate in a variety of terrain. Most scouts and infiltration units are derived from the Wanderers.

The Cressians are experts at guerrilla warfare using terrain to their best advantage. They will harass enemy troops, setting ambushes and targeting enemy supply lines, as well as using infiltration units to attack enemy camps from within. This is of course were the Druids are indispensable as it is they who are able to alter the terrain to even better exploit the Cressian advantages.
If Cressians are ever caught on open ground they are able to call on the Barbarians and Dog Warriors of the Warrior Sept to provide defense in the form of spear walls, whilst the archers fire from behind the vanguard line and druids and bards (from the Scribes Sept) use their spells to both to enhance the Cressian troops and target the enemy.
Most Cressian Diplomats are also pulled from the Scribes Sept and some maybe Bards

*Deltane Ranger – a Beastman PrC (alt.Ranger) it was mentioned earlier that some Dog Warriors might be sent out to the borders and taught to live off the lands? This is the result

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Sweet, I was thinking that given their need for flexibility, transference of support units between militia companies, and need to train people in small units the Cressians would go for a highly divisible number for their base groupings.

So that the most basic Cressian unit consists of 15 fighting members, though some rare troop types will not commit the entire formation to battle so they may fight in units of 10, called a pack. This is, except in the cases of Deltane border troops, an organizational unit. The smallest garrison and marching unit will consist of no less than four of these groups, a kennel, and the smallest fighting unit will consist of 8, one or two of which will be packs from a sept, called a hunt. Unless otherwise ordered the senior pack will be in command of any formation, with sept packs frequently being granted defacto seniority. Hunts are generally the largest normal formations. Druids or sept leaders with several hunts at their command are called huntsmen and their commanders are Huntsmasters, though they most often prefer their ecclesiastical titles. Seniority is determined through elaborate protocols, but once known is largely unquestionable.

The small units take advantage of the fact that each village militia will probably have units of a variety of different experiences as they are likely to train generationally as well as the time and inclination to train men in small groups as opposed to all at once. The manner in which the small units are then formed into larger formations allows the high command to integrate elite sept units into formations of militia without having to insert them artificially.

It also means that the Cressians can tailor their formations to specific need. So that while the Ta'jinn are pretty much stuck with finding the right mix of troops in a wing and then subdividing it, the Cressians can decide that a particular situation requires a hunt made up of a mix of archers and heavy infantry with druid support and either use a mixture of kennels or just build it from the ground up.

Plus it continues the Babylonian theme by making 60 their basic number.

Love the basic composition Tonguez. Thanks.

 

[s/LaSH]

OK, so the Ta'jinn have reinforced their supply trains, and are probably routing them through their Stempan allies. But they aren't making inroads on Cresia. Meanwhile, the Cresians (while their central authority may advise a more peacable approach) are getting worked up over these abominations on their soil, and are definitely going to want to wipe them out. If their priests say otherwise, they'll have an uprising on their hands.

The Ta'jinn are relatively secure in their supply trains. The Cresians are relatively secure on their home ground. How can this change?

First, the Cresians enjoyed limited success in their initial raids on supply convoys. The basic tactic - a few shock troops in the form of Deltanes, then a missile bombardment - worked moderately well, but darkvision and superior mobility on the centaurs' part defeated that tactic. The shock assault needs work. Use of mist stops either side using arrows... unless the archers on one side are above the mist.

A common Cresian defensive tactic is adopted. Their cities are surrounded by isolated trees or posts as rangefinders; the deltanes can navigate through a mist perimeter, and send out cries whenever they encounter enemy troops. A concentrated archery barrage that cannot harm the deltane lands on that area. The archers themselves are in towers, trees and ramparts above the mist. Those packs of archers that are more effective (that is, can judge distance and direction by sound alone) are sent to the front lines, ten packs of archers to a pack of deltanes and another pack of druids; this small division of 120 warriors is fairly mobile, fairly stealthy, and fairly effective in combat. The basic tactic: shock the enemy with pseudo-invulnerable deltanes; mist the battlefield; move your archers around, bombarding the areas where deltanes set up their cries. Some divisions also have bards, who can throw out Silence and Blindness/Deafness at level 3 to disrupt enemy use of sound in the mist, and generally boost combat effectiveness.

Meanwhile, the Ta'jinn have caught a few of their human soldiers turning into werewolves. Through sheer brute force they've managed to take one or two prisoner (six centaurs hanging off you is enough to stop even a werewolf running away), and after failing to cure them by conventional means they've discovered that you can, in fact, kill them, albeit with great difficulty. Fire and magical energy both kill lycanthropes just as easily as they kill normal soldiers. In fact, a lycanthrope held to the ground can be hit with a coup-de-grace attack that has a good chance of killing it. This technique is disseminated to all troops. (Note that actually getting hold of a lycanthrope is harder than you'd think, and human troops run the risk of infection in the process. This, of course, means that centaurs get to do it - and become hailed as holy champions for it. Logically, some decades down the path, we'll start seeing centaur paladins.)

But this doesn't really help them assault Cresian fortresses. The only tactic that might work is death from above - a spell bombardment from a griffin wing. Loath to use their precious steeds in this way, one assault is finally approved... what is the result?

PS: Yo, Tuerny, if you feel you've got something to contribute, go right ahead. It'll only require a couple hours of reading our previous battle records, taking notes, etc etc. and fresh perspectives are always appreciated. Right folks?

 

[dglass]

I was wondering where magic items fit into all this? Is it too soon for them to develop?

Today at work I was thinking about how a small group using hit-and-fade tactics could do a lot of damage if they all had at least one level of wizard or sorcerer. A mass of archers is scary but a mass of people with magic missile wands is downright sick. These people all wear the same slate grey uniforms with no insignia or rank. Soldiers are grouped togather so that they are all pretty much the same height and have identical haircuts. Unless some kind of power component could be found to reduce the XP cost there will never be a way to supply an army with magic items. But every single soldier carries what looks like a wand. Its just the officers have ones that work. Everyone else has to make due with scrolls. They would stick to rough terrain which would be home ground. The point is to make anyone who invades thier territory think:
a) that there are more of them then there actually are
b) that they can rain down magical death all day long without running out of spells like other casters
c) they can appear and disappear without warning ((if they have invented Invisibility this may in fact be true))
I had envisioned someplace in the mountains possibly near a volcano. The geologic activity creates planes of broken rock, boulders, and ravines. The home base would probably a hidden valley.

 

[s/LaSH]

I was wondering where magic items fit into all this? Is it too soon for them to develop?

Today at work I was thinking about how a small group using hit-and-fade tactics could do a lot of damage if they all had at least one level of wizard or sorcerer. A mass of archers is scary but a mass of people with magic missile wands is downright sick. These people all wear the same slate grey uniforms with no insignia or rank. Soldiers are grouped togather so that they are all pretty much the same height and have identical haircuts. Unless some kind of power component could be found to reduce the XP cost there will never be a way to supply an army with magic items. But every single soldier carries what looks like a wand. Its just the officers have ones that work. Everyone else has to make due with scrolls. They would stick to rough terrain which would be home ground. The point is to make anyone who invades thier territory think:
a) that there are more of them then there actually are
b) that they can rain down magical death all day long without running out of spells like other casters
c) they can appear and disappear without warning ((if they have invented Invisibility this may in fact be true))
I had envisioned someplace in the mountains possibly near a volcano. The geologic activity creates planes of broken rock, boulders, and ravines. The home base would probably a hidden valley.

A valid point. I'd surmise that magic items would be fairly uncommon at this stage, because magic is, while not in its infancy, still only having to shave a couple of times a week. Under the scenario level restrictions, a few casters could be expected to have picked up the ability to craft wondrous items, scrolls, and potions (and I believe scrolls were developed by Jongans a few centuries before, so the Cresians at least have that technology); the more powerful casters might be able to craft wands and magical weaponry/armour; virtually nobody would be capable of making rods, let alone staffs.

Considering the magical prowess of the various nations, it seems that Cresia would probably be the leader in low-level utility stuff, and every druid and priest (and maybe the bards) would carry a few useful scrolls for use in emergencies. Potions would be fairly well-known to Cresians, too, although not in vast numbers. Additional items would be related to agriculture, like magic plows or harnesses for dolphins, and generally low-powered.

Stempa, on the other hand, doesn't really have many casters compared to the other nations. Their priests would probably have a few items hanging around, but because Stempans have to be strong, few items are ever crafted (the XP drain issue).

The Ta'jinn have a few casters (the godsblood), who probably spend most of their feats on griffin riding. I could imagine a few spending their time making weapons, but such weapons would be the stuff of legend and only seen in the hands of maybe a dozen people per Tamarch, probably leaders. And the weapons wouldn't exceed +2 or +3 in total.

The Auselen, on the other hand, are ruled by sorcerers and have a lot of experimenters running around. With their military largely composed of casters, monks and rogues, perhaps half their military forces can use activated magic items. If anyone's going to have magic items, it's these guys. I can actually imagine them dressing their soldiers all the same (or at least in their house colours), and trying something like this.

In general, if anyone's going to have magic items, chances are good that they're Auselen in origin and cost them dearly. The Cresians have a slight advantage in their scroll and potion base, but that's probably about it...

...for now.