Fantasy Races and Originality

[Tarangil]

I find nothing wrong with the standard races, each can be built to be culturally different from the norm without having to give them wings or extra arms. Strange though, nobody's brought up Humans at all. You could pattern hundreds of different races/people/cultures from them alone and keep it all within the realm of fantasy.

The Bayan people on my world a scary structural political minset similar to Romans but with a little Hitler mixed in. The People are Tall and lanky average 6'1, and have very pale skin. They are well organized and good cooperators when it comes to achieving goals for their emerging empire, and have a good handle on magic and use it accordingly. Unfortunately they are rather ruthless in forcing their status quo on surrounding peoples. They are essentially the antagonists for PC's or the threat lingering in the background.

 

[fuindordm]

The last (only?) D&D setting to do anything truly different with the core races was DarkSun. So I welcome races like the Warforged and the Half-Giant, as well as opening up certain races out of the various MM type books for use as PCs.

I think Eberron has put a pretty original spin on all the old races. Halflings as nomadic hunters, elves whose dearest ambition is to join the ranks of the undead... True, they're not quite as 'out there' as the Dark Sun versions, but their cultures are developed in a very different direction from what we traditionally see, and it's refreshing enough to renew interest in the races.

Ben

 

[Zakath429]

You know, everybody talks about the "good" guys, but what about the enemies. What about the poor forgotten orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, gnolls, bugbears, kobolds, etc. On the homebrew world my group has been working on we have made some minor (mostly alignment) changes to our goblinoids. We based our goblinoid on historical cultures that we liked. They even live and work togeather in their own nation.

Orcs-They are the top rung of the social ladder in this empire and are modeled after the ancient Romans both culturally and militarialy. It was gratifying to hear the screams of anguish from my party when they came across my Romanized orcs. The party had wracked their brains trying to break the roman tortise all the while getting hit with attacks of opprotunity from the orcs behing the shields.
Hobgoblins-These are my personal favorite, I gave them the culture of the Mongol horde of the Ghengis Kahn era. I got the idea way back in First Edition, just look at their illustration in the first Monster Manual, they guy looks like the typical mongol warrior.
Goblins-These guys I molded after the native americans of the midwest plains, instead of being mounted on horses, they use Worgs.
Gnolls-I molded these guys with a combination of Japanese and Chinese cultures. This idea I got from the flinds (ie Flindbar)

These are just the begining, I have molded different races into historical cultures just to add some flavor to our homebrew world. My gaming group enjoys the familiar, sprinkled with the fantastic.

 

[Barak]

There's nothing wrong with having lots of options for PC races in the book.

Thing is, at the start of the campaign, the DM (preferably with the players input) needs to decide which race is there, and how they are. If you try to include -all- of the published race, that's when you'll end up with a big huge mess.

But to answer the question, yes it's easily possible to do something original with "just" the PH's races. Heck, look at all the examples of campaign setting given here, each with at the very least a different outlook at the stereotypes, if not new stereotypes altogether.

 

[Desdichado]

So what are your thoughts on this? Can fantasy worlds use the "standard races" and still be original? Or are wholly new races neccessary to make a setting fresh and new?

Sure, it can. I still prefer new races more often than not, though. Eberron did a good job of even making the standard races fresh, IMO, but I still prefer the new Eberron races to the Eberron take on, say, elves or goblinoids.

 

[Turjan]

So what are your thoughts on this? Can fantasy worlds use the "standard races" and still be original? Or are wholly new races neccessary to make a setting fresh and new?

For me, it's the former. Let's take an example for what I mean: Talislanta. That setting is full of new races. "No elves!" is even one of their main slogans. But if you have a close look at what is there, you will notice most of the old racial stereotypes with different names and different complexions.

It's hard to find a niche for a new race that isn't already occupied by a different one. Some of the distinctions are already a stretch. What's the difference between orcs and hobgoblins, except the standard alignment? Alignment is more of a cultural thing for me, and I don't like my races as one trick ponies. That's why I don't really see a need for both, orcs and hobgoblins. Of course, this means that I don't see any need for yet another race filling the same niche, either.

There are not many truly original new races around. Although I'm not overly fond of them, the warforged were an original concept. Shifters are not, and changelings push a few too many alarm buttons with me to feel comfortable with them as a "race". AE's mojh are a great concept, too, as are harrids. For most of the rest, I'm comfortable with what's already there. And I don't need all of the standards, if the author doesn't find something unique for them that is more than just another human culture.

 

[Drowbane]

I have frequently come across the claim that using the "standard" fantasy races - elves, dwarves, halflings and so on - is unoriginal, and that making up completely new races that are not related to Tokien's writing is much preferable.

Unoriginal, sure. Does that mean its bad? No.

I like Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes and Halflings. Ok, so I really don't like Gnomes.... IMC, the "standard" races are: Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, and Orc. (none of that 1/2 Elf, 1/2 Orc...)

 

[gizmo33]

So what are your thoughts on this? Can fantasy worlds use the "standard races" and still be original? Or are wholly new races neccessary to make a setting fresh and new?

IMO there are plenty of genres that take character "race" and culture for granted and try to tell an interesting story with those elements. For example, in the typical western, the setting is "a bunch of humans with guns and hats riding horses" (from the fantasy perspective). Although fantasy doesn't have to take the issue of character race for granted like other genre's have to, I don't see any reason why it's wrong for fantasy to use the "conventions" in this area. IMO a setting needs some familiarity to be interesting.

IMO Tolkien's elves and dwarves were actually human stereotypes extended to an imaginary race. The elvish hook might be "the grand old guardians of an ancient tradition", for example. The thing about the elves that appeals to me as a reader, moreso than pointy ears, is that they are relics of a former, more enlightened age. They remember the old songs and battles that the younger races have forgotten. Sort of like people that still play 1st Edition DnD. So it's actually the *human* condition and themes that elves represent that makes them interesting as a fantasy race.

Another, more recent example, might be the "Warforged" of Eberron, which IMO works because it takes themes familiar to people (as I read it, a sort of post-Vietnam "old warriors trying to live in a mainstream society" combined with issues of caste and race that are familiar to readers) and deals with them in an imaginary race. A hook like that, IMO, is much more interesting than just a random assortment of cultural details with no interesting theme.

 

[Mallus]

Can fantasy worlds use the "standard races" and still be original?

Of course.

Or are wholly new races neccessary to make a setting fresh and new?

No. But sometimes its the right choice for the given world/campaign.

The way I see it, the main reason to use the standard, established, dare I say classic D&D races is to give players a familiar starting point. Common ground. We expect the fantasic in fantasy literature/games, but we also expect familiar elements to help ground us.

That said, I ditched all the standard races for my homebew, the World of CITY. But I tried to keep the archetypes; a brute race, a mystic race, a small, nimble, good-hearted race, etc. Then I layered real world references on top of that; the mystic race is meant to suggest the Sufi (and there names are frequently part Arabic), the nimble race Asian temple monkeys. Different from the PHB races, yet familiar, too.

 

[Mallus]

So it's actually the *human* condition and themes that elves represent that makes them interesting as a fantasy race.

Bingo!

I've always been amused by the folks that complain about SF/F aliens being 'humans in funny suits'. Of course they are. Otherwise what use would they be? You can't read about/play a being that's essentially incomprehensible, something that shares no common points of reference with you, no basic similarities.

Actually, you could write a book about such a thing, and it would Stanislaw Lem's Solaris. Of course, the point of the book is how humans can't comprehend the alien; anything outside of the themselves (and they comprehend themselves pretty poorly, to boot).

Non-humans almost always exist as foils.