Fantasy Sex Roleplaying Game Releases October 2003

[herald]

You know what bothers me.

He broke the OGL. Thats it really. That's the only thing that bothers me.

No lets say that he pushed out the book under the OGL guidelines and omitted the information about being compatable with Dungeon's and Dragons.

Would he be taking as much flack right now if he had done such a thing? I really don't think so.

I aslo tend to think that it hurts the overall OGL/D20 system thing because he is getting away with something that others have been slapped down for.

FFG (love or hate Jim Ward) had to destroy some of it products for being in violation of the D20 STL for including things like "Drawmij" in its works. Ironic considering that "Drawmij" is an old character of Jim's and it's his name spelled backwards.

So, the irony is that to be fair, WOTC will have to slap down Anthony on his violation and in return Valar more than likely will put something else into print saying thier sorry. Which ofcourse will mean that they will get more publicity.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I feel that Anthony has a right to this book, but, he went about this all wrong. He could have avoided this stir up by just following the rules and put out the book.

I'm not worried about ministers or rabid politics, I am worried about the makers of games, and the new makers of game who now see that the playing field is unlevel and that company insiders have things to thier advantage for thier side business.

Reguardless, this is IMHO, and there are plenty of things that once brought to light, might change my mind.

 

[rounser]

Rounser, can you tell me why D&D should cater only to PG-13 audiences? Most studios offer movies for different audiences. TV stations cater to different age categories with different programs. I fail to see why D&D should cater only to PG-13 gamers, and not offer other gamers what they want.

I think in the long run it'll do D&D as a whole lot more of a disservice than it's worth. You want rules for elf bondage in a book? You really need that, or is it the "principle" of the thing?

Besides, I accept the argument that it's a "look at me" troll stunt for the media. Funny how it coincides with the release of 3.5, eh?

Why is it bad to offer some adult people material for their campaigns? How does it hurt your game?

It damages how people perceive the game, which is part of the source of D&D's enjoyment - it's atmosphere. Already we've seen stuff that you have to dodge if you don't want those associations with what's supposed to be escapism, and I'd rather a lid be put on it. So, I'll call it as I see it - stupid theme that will do more harm to the game community than good - and leave you to go buy the dang thing.

My game is not hurt by any other game, even if that game was just a racist slaughterfest where sick minds live out their genocide dreams.

Like it or not, violence and sex are apples and oranges, and the combination of them is another ball game again. That's why playing Quake is socially acceptable in mixed company, but viewing porn on your computer isn't. You can make "how wrong it is that murder isn't censored, but sex is" comparisons until the cows come home, but that's not the way the real world works. The real world isn't morally theoretical, it's social.

 

[Ghostwind]

You know what bothers me.

He broke the OGL. Thats it really. That's the only thing that bothers me.

No, he didn't. There is nothing in the OGL that governs press releases. It only applies directly to the product itself. Until now, no third party publisher has used that loophole out of courtesy, but that could very well change now that someone else has gone and done it.

 

[Belen]

AV/ WOTC in bed together (Mature company) and the BoEF!

Ok all,

For those of us involved in the "What constitutes mature material" threads a few weeks ago, we heard Anthony Valterra (AV) ask us how we'd respond to a mature- content company connected to WOTC, but separate enough for them to have plausible deniability.

I do not care what WOTC says in any statement. They ARE connected to this book. Could someone who can search find AV's earlier comments? The press release was designed to raise our hackles and get us familiar with this product. After hearing Monte's true intent for the BoVD, I know that WOTC is playing our emotions again. Not only are they behind this book, but the lack of their response from AV or any other WOTC employee shows that they are duplicitous in this "3rd party press release." Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that WOTC is not behind the BOEF.

It now seems that AV was trawling the boards to get a pre-reaction to the announcement of the Book of Eroctic Fantasy (BoEF). Judging by the poor reponse to his earlier vague requests, I'll bet he had no clue the type of reaction he would garner.

At the time he posted his questions, I asked him what his definition of "maturity" would be. Puerile gross out or giggly sex do not a mature theme make. It seems that he has made my worst fears come true. His definition of maturity will make an 8th grader giggle, but will do little for those of us who'd like a truly mature book of game content.

How is it that blood and gore and erotica are mature? Yes, it carries a mature label because kids shouldn't see it, but that is all.

Love and romance; Overcoming disability; True friendship; and responsibility are mature themes. Discussing elven nether-regions is not maturity, nor should we be subjected to it. Frankly, it's disturbing. Maturity should come from the GM and the players, not some publisher who never grew out of their middle school giggle phase.

Why can't we get a book that discussing mature gaming environments? WHY DO WE NEED PUERILE CRUNCH!?

Dave

 

[Fenes 2]

I think in the long run it'll do D&D as a whole lot more of a disservice than it's worth. You want rules for elf bondage in a book? You really need that, or is it the "principle" of the thing?

I get a tad miffed if people try to prevent me from making a choice what I need or do not need in a game. I don't tell people "You don't need rules for mass warfare, just make it up." or try to convince others that roleplaying does not need rules for social skills since you can just play it out (incidentally, I am not of that opinion).

Besides, I accept the argument that it's a "look at me" troll stunt for the media. Funny how it coincides with the release of 3.5, eh?

Might be something to it, but then why should I care about it?

It damages how people perceive the game, which is part of the source of D&D's enjoyment - it's atmosphere. Already we've seen stuff that you have to dodge if you don't want those associations with what's supposed to be escapism, and I'd rather a lid be put on it. So, I'll call it as I see it - stupid theme that will do more harm to the game community than good - and leave you to go buy the dang thing.

This I find ridiculous. If I cared about what others think of D&D I would have quit long ago, my own sister thinks it is puerile and stupid. Do you want your game to be associated with a "kill monster and take their stuff"-kiddie game? I don't care about ignorant opinions, I don't laugh at other hobbies either no matter how impossible it is for me to understand how anyone could enjoy it.

Like it or not, violence and sex are apples and oranges, and the combination of them is another ball game again. That's why playing Quake is socially acceptable in mixed company, but viewing porn on your computer isn't. You can make "how wrong it is that murder isn't censored, but sex is" comparisons until the cows come home, but that's not the way the real world works. The real world isn't morally theoretical, it's social.

Your real world must work different than mine, but then I live in good old Europe, where sex is not as much censored as in the USA.

Again, why should I not be allowed to buy such a book for my campaign? Why should I care about the feelings of any person unable to cope with the fact that in the real world people have different tastets, different morals, and different takes on right and wrong? Why should I change my favourite game just so that others can feel clean when playing their PG-13 game?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Trolling?

By most people's opinion your post is more trolling than any AV posts here on ENWorld would be considered.


Beyond that your post is little more than an X-Files conspiracey invades WOTC. Are you next going to suggest we shall see erotic crop circles near the WOTC corporate office?

 

[Tiefling]

I think in the long run it'll do D&D as a whole lot more of a disservice than it's worth. You want rules for elf bondage in a book? You really need that, or is it the "principle" of the thing?

It's been said before and I'm going to say it ONCE more: If you've seen and read the book, how 'bout giving us a real preview?

It damages how people perceive the game...

Prove it.

 

[herald]

No, he didn't. There is nothing in the OGL that governs press releases. It only applies directly to the product itself. Until now, no third party publisher has used that loophole out of courtesy, but that could very well change now that someone else has gone and done it.

Ah, I admit this could very well be a hole in my understanding. I would have thought that "press release" would be considered a form of advertisement. But one second consideration, I could see how it would not.

I still feel that Anthony kinda got away with something there, although it's sort of academic. I'm not saying anthing about his character, at worst on my issue with what he's done, he's strayed into a grey area. As far as his content, the "proof of the pudding is in the eating." I'll judge when it comes out.

I'm however reassesing about how bad he has marred the whole OGL/D20 community. It might not be as bad as I thought. I'll wait and see on that as well.

 

[Belen]

AV publically asked us if we'd like to see a mature content company linked to WOTC. Why is it that people have a need to call someone a troll instead of actually discussing a topic?

Trolling the boards means exactly that. Trolling for information just like people troll the ocean for fish. (maybe I spelled it wrong, but the meaning is the same.)

In any event, AV did ask that question, so I'd love for someone to find his post from that thread!

Dave

 

[WayneLigon]

... Are you next going to suggest we shall see erotic crop circles near the WOTC corporate office?

*Steals idea for d20 Modern*

Alien.. that would explain some of the bizarre shapes , and...

Not landing markers. Not 'here is food' signs.

Just alien porn spam.