FAQ clarification request

Steverooo said:
Yep, that's about the best, most honest summation, right there. That's also the problem. ENWorld is basically a "free" service, provided by volunteers, and they're going to do what they feel like doing, and if someone else thinks it should be done differently, it really doesn't matter.

Not at all. We are not deaf, and we very much do care about the happiness of the folks on the site. It seems to me that each and every mod was chosen, in part, because they care about the place as a whole.

We listen to constructive criticism, we discuss such things, we try new methods and experiment and are generally trying to keep our level of service high. But do remember that the place has collected many man-years of operational experience. We'd be fools to toss that aside lightly.

You allude to people getting temp-bans for complaining - note that I say we listen to constructive criticism. The only time I think folks have gotten bans for complaint is when they did so in violation of the rules. Framed politely in the right time and place, and we're quite wiling to listen and discuss. This thread being an example.
 

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Well, Umbran, we are not going to agree... I think we both know that!

IF the mods are open to "constructive criticism", though, I will offer the following bit of wisdom (which the mods, in their years of operational wisdom, are free to ignore). If I were you (and I'm obviously not), I would remove the reference to "calling out" mods, and replace the reference with what you really mean: posting any comments or complaints about it, to the board.

To me, anyway, "calling someone out" means standing in the street and YELLING "JOEY BALBOA, YOU DIRTY DOG! FILL YOUR HAND, GET YOUR ASSETS OUT HERE, THEN TURN AROUND AND BEND OVER! i'M A-GONNA BLOW YER BRAINS OUT!" Apparently, though, it means something else, here at ENWorld.

I would say more, but I don't want to get banned for three days, thanks very much! I will just say that the FAQs should SAY WHAT THEY REALLY MEAN, as much as humanly possible. Fer instance: "When a mod makes a decision, DO NOT post ANYTHING about it, here...", etc.

Apparently, even making a conciliatory post is considered "calling out" a mod (at least by some mods)!

Okay, I'll go back to lumping it, quietly, now...
 
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Morrus said:
I think sometimes people mistake the mods' jobs for one which involves "justice" or somesuch; while they'll try to be fair, that's not their first consideration. The greater good and all that. :)

Unfortunately, I think that this is also the truth!

I think I need to die, so that I can find a fairer world! :D
 

Steverooo said:
To me, anyway, "calling someone out" means standing in the street and YELLING "JOEY BALBOA, YOU DIRTY DOG! FILL YOUR HAND, GET YOUR ASSETS OUT HERE, THEN TURN AROUND AND BEND OVER! i'M A-GONNA BLOW YER BRAINS OUT!" Apparently, though, it means something else, here at ENWorld.

No, if you were to start saying that stuff to me, I wouldn't ban you, I'd call the FBI. :D We've had mods threatened before, sometimes with personal information about them or their home and family. That :):):):) gets taken dead seriously, and a stupid little ban is the least of our concerns.

However, most "calling out" or questioning still falls right within what the FAQ says:

If you really, really disagree with a moderator's position on a [moderating] issue, please don't argue about it on the boards. That means no calling out of moderators, no challenging their decisions in the thread, and certainly no attempts to go over a moderator's head.

The incidents you refer to fall right into that category.

You can like it, or lump it, but complaining about it will just get you a three-day ban from Henry (right, oh many-wived one?)

Nope -- complaining about it in public on the forums will, and usually only if it's either really egregious or we've had previous run-ins with the person. If I temp-banned or perma-banned everyone who had something bad to say about us, It would be a lot quieter around here. Sometimes people just don't realize what actions get a mod to the point of banning somebody.

In e-mail, you can rant, rave, cajole, reason with, praise, or say what you want to me. It doesn't mean I'll necessarily change my mind (or even LISTEN if it's senseless) and it doesn't mean I'll go my own course, either. I've had my mind changed many times in the past from a well-thought-out e-mail. But call me a name publically on the forums, or say that Umbran/Pielorinho/Morrus/Rel/etc. is a loser or doesn't know what they're doing, or they're better off getting kicked out, etc. and it's vacation-time. Preserving the peace and letting people get on with discussing RPG's is the goal; whatever I feel like gets that job done is my first recourse. If it's something that doesn't require immediate action, it gets discussed. Sometimes HEAVILY.
 

Umbran said:
But do remember that the place has collected many man-years of operational experience. We'd be fools to toss that aside lightly.
I think you mean, "We'd be acting foolishly to toss that aside lightly." ;)

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