Farscape armour question

[BlackSheep]

The equipment section states that armour in Farscape replaces the class defence bonus. This means that characters very quickly reach the point where armour becomes totally redundant, especially if they multiclass. For example, Aeryn Sun's writeup shows that she receives no bonus for the Peacekeeper armour she wears.

So far so good. Well, it's consistent at least. But several of the 'mook' sample characters (police, soldiers etc) wear armour which stacks onto their class DB. Anyone know if this is just a mistake, or am I reading something wrong somewhere?

 

[Bamphalas]

Multiclassing doesn't help

The Defense bonuses for multiple classes do not stack, they divide. (This is according to Rob Vaux at AEG.) This appears to be a contradiction to the stacking evident in the sample characters.
Also, the armor bonus SHOULD stack with the class defense bonus (generic characters and combat section suggest this), since they are two different types of protection. There would be no point for some of the armor since at first level some classes already have a higher Defense Bonus. If you look closely at Aeryn's write-up, you'd see that she is actually using her lower class defense (+4) rather than the higher PK Commando Armor Defense (+5). Since Class defense is an example of how they learn to avoid being hit, it should not affect the protection afforded by the Armor. This should be covered in the Errata list that will be going up on the site.

In my game, we have dropped class based defense bonuses for a Defense skill. We found it did not make any sense for a trained Commando to be hit easier than an Aristocrat. Instead, we let individual players decide if their character will spend skill points on the skill. The Defense Skill is Dex based. This is how our total defense is decided:
10 + Defense Skill + Size Modifier + Other Modifiers
Other Modifiers being Armor (Natural and/or artificial), Dodge Feat, etc.
Notice Dexterity isn't listed, because it is already compiled with the Defense Skill.

Just an example of how screwy the Defense bonuses are right now:
A Spy (Rogue 2/Aristocrat 2) is less likely to be hit than Aeryn Sun (Commando 7) Even a generic PK Trooper (3rd level character) is harder to hit than her.

 

[Voneth]

Re: Multiclassing doesn't help

The Defense bonuses for multiple classes do not stack, they divide. (This is according to Rob Vaux at AEG.)

That's odd, he must of changed his mind after the email he sent me. Here is a copy of the errata I posted on this fourm about a three weeks ago.

Farscape erratra, enjoy!
Rob Vaux, the AEG Farscape developer was kind enough to respond to my email about needing some erratra. The questions and answers are below. Rob also says a FAQ is coming and that he is looking for more questions so as to make as complete a document as possible.


Q: The ships in Farscape come in various sizes. Does every ship fit in one hex, regardless of size?

A: We've been operating on the assumption that all ships fit into one hex. It's best that way for simplicity's sake.


Q: Farscape races don't a Favored Class and the book (page 177) says that Defence bonuses are increased per the Players Handbook. So what do multiclass characters do?

A: You simply add the defense bonuses for the pertinent classes together.


Q: Continuity Check: Even in the rpg's episode synopsises, Scropy is noted to have great strength. His write up, however, gives him on a Str 9 and no SQ or power that would let him get a strength boost. What is his strength?

A:'Twas and 'twas utterly my fault. The espisode I had cued up while I
was writing the tsats involved Scorpy without his cooling rods,
flopping about like a landed trout. His Strength should be 18, with
all attendant ability increases.

 

[Bamphalas]

Defense is fubar'd

He must have. I emailed him a few days ago because the defense bonuses were ridiculously high, and asked him to clarify.

10/15/02:

Q: When a character begins at 1st level, he gets the listed defense bonus. For example, a 1st level dimplomat gets a +4. When he goes up to 2nd level, that bonus is now +5. (I believe I got this right so far.) If he were to add a level of mystic, how do you determine his defense bonus? You can't add his mystic bonus, since that would make him +8 which is higher than third level on either class.

The following is how I tried to explore this, but I'd like an official explanation:

I would look at the values on each class for the character level, not class level, and then average. Using the diplomat mystic, I would look under 3rd level since he is 2/1 diplomat/mystic. Diplomat lists+5, and mystic lists +4. Averaged that would be a +4 (+4.5 rounded down) At higher levels it works just as well. A 10/10 diplomat/mystic would average the scores under 20th level, +14+11=+25 divided by 2 equals +12 (+12.5 rounded down) This method appears to work best, but again I would like an official ruling, since you guys did the most playtesting.

A: I believe that info is posted in the D&D Player's Handbook (I don't have a copy near me at the moment), and is not something we can officially publish, which is why the clarification wasn't in the book. You've basically got it right, however; multi-class skills tend to either stack or divide, and the Defense Bonus is definitely a divide ability.

We do plan on getting an errata sheet onto the site as soon as I have a free moment to assemble it.

Note: As stated in my previous post, we decided to give up on using class defense bonuses. They just don't make sense.
I think the breaking point on Defense bonuses was the fact that they start too high. Maybe what should be done is reduce them down to +1 and advance them normally, but gain the excess defense bonus only at 1st level. Similar to the way other bonuses (hit points, feats, etc. work) That way, they can still stack, but you don't get a massive defense boost for adding a class. Just a thought.

 

[GiantInThePlayground]

My fix

I had the same problem (among others) in my Farscape message board game. Especially the thing about Aristocrats having a higher Defense than Warriors: that's an artifact of the 1st edition Star Wars d20 rules, where Armor overlapped (not stacked) with Defense, so Warriors had a low Defense to encourage them to wear armor.

Anyway, I adopted the same fix Star Wars did eventually: I changed Armor to adding Damage Resistance and left Defense alone. Multiclass characters subtract 2 from the Defense added for any 2nd class (pulled from SW,1st ed.) So far, it has worked pretty well.

 

[dlurking]

A: I believe that info is posted in the D&D Player's Handbook (I don't have a copy near me at the moment), and is not something we can officially publish, which is why the clarification wasn't in the book. You've basically got it right, however; multi-class skills tend to either stack or divide, and the Defense Bonus is definitely a divide ability.

nope!

there is no such thing as a Defense Bonus in DnD 3e. it isn't mentioned in the PHB, or the DMG, if it's mentioned in the SRD, i haven't found it.
Defense Bonuses are found in WoT and SWD20. Both of them work by subtracting 2 from your defence bonus for each class you have beyond your first. so if you have a Defense Bonus of +3 and you multiclass into a class that gets +3 at first level, your new Defense Bonus is +4.

-dlurking

 

[Bamphalas]

Still doesn't work

nope!

there is no such thing as a Defense Bonus in DnD 3e. it isn't mentioned in the PHB, or the DMG, if it's mentioned in the SRD, i haven't found it.
Defense Bonuses are found in WoT and SWD20. Both of them work by subtracting 2 from your defence bonus for each class you have beyond your first. so if you have a Defense Bonus of +3 and you multiclass into a class that gets +3 at first level, your new Defense Bonus is +4.

That's why I suspect they will still need to cover it in the errata list.
Also, the subtracting 2 from from the defense for each class beyond the first doesn't work either. You still end up with a higher defense than a single class character. Ex. Using the -2 method on a Diplomat 1/Rogue 1/Scientist 1 would still result in a +8 defense, while even the best single-class 3rd level character only gets a +5.