Fast help for sonic damage!

[IceBear]

Sound is a wave, and it's this sound wave that makes the sound and causes the damage (I mean you can't hear ultrasonic noise as the frequency is too high, but it can shatter stuff). If the glamer nullifies the sound, then to me that implies it nullifies the sound wave and thus no damage.

IceBear

 

[Xarlen]

I'm going to simply say that I'm not moving off the 'Sonic Fireballs Work' rock. But, I do have a mode of thought:

Would you say a flaming weapon works in water? An acidic weapon? If so, then couldn't a screaming weapon work in Silence?

 

[IceBear]

I'm also confused by the sonic weapons myself. However, I wouldn't have acid and flaming weapons function fully underwater. According to the offical 3E rules on underwater combat a fireball does cause some damage due to creating steam, so obviously there's a precedent on fire causing damage underwater. A flaming sword I could still see causing some extra damage underwater as it is constantly trying to produce flame which is constantly being extinguished.

Hmmmm.....the could be how sonic weapons work in silence - they manage to "overload" the sound surpression. I still would have a spell effect (there was only one original source, not like the constant source with the sword) cancelled though.

IceBear

 

[Xarlen]

I would think that a flaming weapon, Very Gradually, would raise the temperature of the water. It's like sticking a hot iron in a bucket of water.

Although, by this reasoning, an Electric weapon should have some sort've area effect.

 

[Xarlen]

Hmmmm.....the could be how sonic weapons work in silence - they manage to "overload" the sound surpression. I still would have a spell effect (there was only one original source, not like the constant source with the sword) cancelled though.

IceBear

Well, if a constant, small amount can overload, then couldn't a Single, LARGE amount of 20d6 worth of damage overload it?

 

[S'mon]

I would ask the Sage, but it's not like anyone would take the ruling seroiusly.

LOL

People take him seriously when it suits them...

 

[Caliban]

I'm going to simply say that I'm not moving off the 'Sonic Fireballs Work' rock. But, I do have a mode of thought:

Would you say a flaming weapon works in water? An acidic weapon? If so, then couldn't a screaming weapon work in Silence?

No, I wouldn't allow a flaming weapon to deliver extra fire damage underwater, although you might get a nice bubbling/steaming area around the blade.

However, I believe a screaming weapon is different than a sonic fireball.

Look at it this way: Sonic damage is vibration based damage. It needs a medium to propagate through, or it is nullified.

A Silence spell prevents the air from acting as a medium to propagate the vibrations through. And sound or sonic based effect can't propage through it. A Sonic Firebal wouldn't affect anything within the area.

With a screaming weapon, the vibrations propagate through the weapon itself when it hits you. The audible humming or screaming you hear is just a side effect of the weapon vibrating. the actual damage is delivered by the vibrating blade.

 

[Xarlen]

Look at it this way: Sonic damage is vibration based damage. It needs a medium to propagate through, or it is nullified.

A Silence spell prevents the air from acting as a medium to propagate the vibrations through. And sound or sonic based effect can't propage through it. A Sonic Firebal wouldn't affect anything within the area.

With a screaming weapon, the vibrations propagate through the weapon itself when it hits you. The audible humming or screaming you hear is just a side effect of the weapon vibrating. the actual damage is delivered by the vibrating blade.

I can dig that. But I still think Silence no stop sonic lightning bolts.

Edit: Note, fellas, that Logically, I see where you're coming from. But, this is more a Gut thing that I'm ruling here, in my game.

 

[IceBear]

Well, if a constant, small amount can overload, then couldn't a Single, LARGE amount of 20d6 worth of damage overload it?

Again, that's a possibility. As I said, it's all magic and I don't know how it really works. 20d6 of sonic damage could only do 20 points of damage and since there are some sound based spells that do similar damage and ARE blocked then we would need to know the threshold, etc.

What there is is an inconsistency - they say that silence spells block sonic attacks and then they say *specifically* that sonic weapons work in areas of silence. So, either that's a mistake, so there is something specific about how the magic works for sonic weapons that counters it. That was the first rationalization I could thing of Ah, I see Caliban came up with a better one. Yeah, a sonic weapon would be like a vibrosword from Shadowrun.

IceBear

 

[Jeremy]

And just in case anyone over here isn't following the other debate too, here's a couple more arguments as to why silence should counter sonic substituted fireballs.

1) If your opponent is using silence, don't substitute sonics, leave it a fireball.

2) Silence specifically says it stops all sonic attacks such as a horn of blasting which I consider as similar to the effect of a sonic ball or a great shout.

3) No sound can exist in a silence area, penetrate a silenced area, issue forth from a silenced area, originate in a silenced area, or even carry through a silenced area. Sound is not suppressed here, it is eliminated.

4) Who carries around silence spells anyways? It's only on a couple of spell lists, and using it as a protection hinders the spellcaster just as much as it does the person throwing the sonic attacks.

5) Sonics shouldn't work in an area with no sonics.

6) If sonic balls were vibro balls or force balls they'd have different descriptors. As far as I can tell, sonic substitution allows you to substitute sonics for another type of energy. In an area with no sonics, see number 5.

At least, that's my opinion, I can't find anything to back it up or negate it in the rules so feel free to disregard or adopt it as you choose.