Fate and the Player (my players should not read)

[zyzzyr]

Hi all,

If you are in my campaign, you probably shouldn't be reading this. Go away, AMH, you suit.

I am running a campaign with 4 people (an elf druid, a half-orc barbarian, a dwarf fighter, and an elf wizard). We game occasionally at best. We are currently at level 5, about to hit 6.

My question is the following:

Is it good, reasonable, or stupid to give each player a "fate" or "destiny".

For example, the elf wizard? She's really meant to rule the good dragons in battle - if she so chooses. She has a little dragonblood in her, though she doesn't know it yet.

The elf druid? She's actually the last living bloodline of ancient royalty.

The half-orc barbarian? He's the "chosen" of his deity to lead his army into battle, when the dragon battle comes.

The dwarf fighter? He is to reunite the fractured dwarven clans, as he is a mixed blood.

Now, a few things first:

1) I do think it's acceptable to have an overriding plot. The world continues on even though the PCs are not directly involved.

2) I am not *forcing* these on the players. I regard "fate" as "an open door". The opportunities will be there, but the players do not have to follow that path. However, this does mean, for example, that Kord's followers will not have the "chosen" as a leader and that might demoralize them, as their deity put his trust in the wrong person.

Please do not reply with the following: [bold]"You shouldn't force anything on your players! bad bad bad!"[/bold]

If your thoughts are somthing like "the problem with this 'fate' is that you cannot help but force your players into certain actions", then I'd appreciate insight

So, what do you think of the DM assigning a "fate" or "destiny" to each PC without their knowledge?

 

[Crothian]

It depends on the players. I've had players that will build in this sort of thing into their background all the time. Some, would even give me a dozen choices (all good) so that I could pick one that way he wouldn't know exactly what was going on.

Some players we allow for this to be drawn from their backgroud (this is what I do). I'll write up a background that the Dm could go many different ways with if he wants. This gives a little direction from the player, but the DM has the final say as to if it will be expanded and how it flows with the game.

Others, don't want this and rebel against it. I've tried to give their characters a big destiny and they did everytrhing in their power to make sure it doesn't happen or matter to the story. And that's fine for them.

Sometime the destiny doesn't have to be decided from day one, it evolves out of the campaign.

 

[Eryx]

I say that it can and does work. You just have to make sure that it is not overriding the campaign. Let it be something the character finds out as they go along, just don't have everyone turn around and force the character into their possible destiny.
Make sure you leave room to allow events to preoceed if the character chooses not to pursue the events.

 

[Al]

This is a tricky one. The irony is that rather than the PCs getting the proverbial shaft and being forced to kowtow to the DM's line, it is often more the case that the DM is subject to a sort of 'chaos theory' effect where in order to fulfil his planned destinies (which may or may not be pivotal to the campaign) he has to deviate and veer around various obstacles.

For example, what happens if the guy meant to rally the world and conquer the demon-king happens to get criticalled by an orc at 1st level and end up in a bloody heap? How does this effect the destiny of the character, or of the world? If he is truly the 'destined' one, then fate should intervene to save him...indeed, if he simply dies and that's the end, then the whole destiny idea is fallacious.

So the DM's life becomes more complicated. He *could* have the player raised, but what if the player wishes a different character? Besides, it is highly unlikely that a 1st level character is going to have the funds to be raised. And a mysterious oracle coming down and raising him is likely to be suspicious...

It is possible to veer around such situations. Ensure that the orc didn't *really* crit him (rig the dice or whatever). But things get trickier. Are you really going to keep track of all the PCs' hitpoints in the event of unfortunate circumstances. What about failing an easy save (which the player rolls) against a death effect (which the party mage can Spellcraft). How does one explain the mysterious raising of the character if the party choose to give him a decent burial?

Once they figure it out, all hell can break loose. Abusive players can manipulate destinies and forge themselves immortal, playing against the grain of the campaign. You can revoke their destiny and have them killed for their folly, but what about the wider impact?

Simply put, prophesies are too complicated to put in where the PCs have free-choice. The lack of predictability makes it a potential nightmare for the DM. They work in myths, legend and fiction novel as the author has complete control over all the events...but in the chaotic world of FRPG it can be more trouble than it's worth. I counsel against.

 

[Vaxalon]

The prophesies have to be properly constructed.

"This goblin is destined to lead his people out of their exile and back into their ancestral caverns. If he does not succeed, the goblin infestation of Fardossa will last for a thousand years."

 

[drnuncheon]

For example, what happens if the guy meant to rally the world and conquer the demon-king happens to get criticalled by an orc at 1st level and end up in a bloody heap? How does this effect the destiny of the character, or of the world? If he is truly the 'destined' one, then fate should intervene to save him...indeed, if he simply dies and that's the end, then the whole destiny idea is fallacious.

There are two things you must take into account when you write these prophecies/destinies:

1) Make them vague enough that the players won't notice when they're altered. Saying 'the Warrior shall inspire a thousand thousand soldiers to rise up and march' doesn't necessarily mean that the Warrior is still alive. It could be the tales of his death...

2) Don't let the players know which is which until it's almost too late. If they are referred to by vague terms like 'the Defender' and 'the Warrior' then your players will probably have a lot of fun trying to figure out who is who. Make sure there are more slots in the prophecy than there are PCs.

These will allow you the flexibility/wiggle-room to retrofit the prophecies to the events, and make it seem like you planned it all along.

J

 

[James McMurray]

It's ok. Heck, my party has a destiny to fulfill. However, it also behooves the DM to be ready to accept that the player may be unwilling or unable to fulfill that destiny. For that reason, vague prophesies are much better than outright guarantees of destiny. Sure, the party may believe they are part of the prophesy, but if they fail, it can always mean it wasn't their time or something.