Favored class bonuses: give both hp & rank

[IronWolf]

Maybe the favored class bonuses is filling the exact opposite role of what it needs to be, and should be put in reverse...give bonus HP/skill ranks/other benefits to PCs who multiclass, to represent the skill synergy and cross-class talents they are developing as they diversify their range of abilities. Mechanically, these extras might help offset the sacrifice of high-level powers (unless already maxed out) given up in the multiclassing process.

You might be working against the purpose of Favored Class bonuses in Pathfinder. Favored Class is more of a mechanic to give one pause before multi-classing out, an attempt to make staying with the same class 1-20 a more attractive option than it was in the 3.x days.

Which is fine if you want to house rule things around, but the rules as written are geared to promote staying with one class and away from multi-classing. Quite likely why you find the rule runs against your desire to see more multi-classing.

 

[Matthias]

I've never understood the need to push solo-classing, except with players new to the game. The benefit from getting closer to or obtaining those juicy high-level abilities are pretty good incentives by themselves.

I would think that rewarding multiclassing (or at least compensating for it) would reduce the need to multiply hybridized base classes that do basically the same thing as a combo of two preexisting classes but with a cheaper XP cost (where, for example, you might get more and better goodies wth 20 levels of a 'warrogue' hybrid class than you would with 10 levels each of Fighter and Rogue).

Here is a sketch of a compensatory solution.
1. Parse the core & base classes, labelling every class feature as a Minor, Medium, or Major Power according to their potency and level of acquisition. (Additive/cunulative abilities such as Spells should be broken down by individual levels...spell levels 1st through 3rd would be Minor, 4th to 6th Medium, etc). Generally, Minor abilities would run from 1st to 10th, Medium from 5th to 15th, and Major from 10th to 20th.

2. For multiclassing characters, allow the option of giving up two Minor abilities from the secondary class (usually the lower level one) to gain access to a Medium ability from the primary class (usually the favored class), contingent upon the character having at least as many char. levels as the class level the Medium ability becomes available, plus meeting any other normal prerequisites of the Medium feature (minimum ability score, etc.) As well, you cannot 'skip levels'; for example, you could not use these rules to pick up the paladin Holy Champion ability (20th level) while forgoing Aura of Righteousness (17th).

3. Two Medium features may be given up for one Major feature using the same principles.

4. An ability to be sacrificed must be given up at the time the character has achieved the class level for it. This means (a) one must be able to say the character never got the sacrificed ability in order to be able to use it, and (b) there is no guarantee that the benefit must appear at the same moment abilities are given up--in situations where a class gains only one class feature at a given level, the sacrifice must be made without an immediate payoff.

5. For characters with three or more classes, two abilities from two secondary classes may be given up to gain a high-level ability for the primary.

There's probably loopholes galore up above but the basic ideas are all there.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Personally, I just went back to AD&D multiclassing rules. I like the alternate Favored Class bonuses because they give an incentive for characters to stick to racially preferred classes without applying a hard limit.

 

[Tovec]

Personally, I just went back to AD&D multiclassing rules. I like the alternate Favored Class bonuses because they give an incentive for characters to stick to racially preferred classes without applying a hard limit.

For those of us who haven't played AD&D, what are those rules?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

For those of us who haven't played AD&D, what are those rules?

You divided your XP gains by the number of classes, and advanced in all classes concurrently. Think Gestalt with a level adjustment. Since each class had a different XP table, you would advance in each class at a different rate and the system had rules for how to handle this.

 

[Mad Hamish]

For those of us who haven't played AD&D, what are those rules?

My recollection from the last time I played AD&D (almost 20 years ago so take with a grain of salt)
you started out as a multi-classed character and could never add a class later on (there was dual classed but it was a different system which let you stop advancing in 1 class to pick up a new one)
non-humans could only multi-class, humans could only dual class (1st ed AD&D allowed a half-elf to dual class solely between the fighter and thief class to allow them to play a bard which used to require levels of fighter and thief to enter it iirc)

You divided your xp evenly between the classes and you received _almost_ the best benefits of each class (hp rolls were divided the number of classes, iirc an elf wizard/fighter could cast spells in armour but a cleric/wizard couldn't and a half-elf wizard/fighter couldn't)

Saving throws were the best of each class for the roll, you used the best attack table or thatc0 progression of your classes etc...

it tended to be problematic partly because of level limits. All non-humans had limited classes they could pick and limited advancement in any class but the thief in the core books (1st ed half-orcs had unlimited advancement in Assassin but I think it had a level limit itself)

generally because of how the level tables worked a multi-classed character was trading 1 level in each class for the abilities of the other class and a wizard/fighter had more hp than a straight fighter but a lot less hp than a straight fighter

In pathfinder it looks like you'd be around 2 levels behind in each class.
I'm not really sure that I'd want to argue that a level 18/18 wizard/fighter
or wizard/cleric isn't clearly ahead of a level 20 wizard
and if you bring level limits in then you've got other problems.

With 3 classes you'd end up with a level 16/16/16 character
a level 16 fighter/cleric/wizard could be a tad overpowered and a level 16 barbarian/ranger/fighter would cause a fair few headaches...

I don't see it as an easy fit for pathfinder

 

[Tovec]

You divided your XP gains by the number of classes, and advanced in all classes concurrently. Think Gestalt with a level adjustment. Since each class had a different XP table, you would advance in each class at a different rate and the system had rules for how to handle this.

Sounds interesting but it does seem like a lot more paperwork.

As far as a solution for this problem, I don't think it really covers it, unfortunately.

So, XP divided by all classes and get the effects of whatever class ends up leveling at the time?

Based on Mad's description it does sound a LOT like gestalting.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Sounds interesting but it does seem like a lot more paperwork.

It was. My solution in 3.X is much simpler. You have one XP total and level up in all of your classes simultaneously, but the XP requirements per level are based on your class(es) and race.

So, XP divided by all classes and get the effects of whatever class ends up leveling at the time?

Yeah. Only exception was hit points-- you got hit points according to 1/X of your hit point roll, where X was the number of classes you got.