Fear Spell, Wand Caster Level

[darthkilmor]

Which is impossible even with the dual wand wielder unless he also has a quickened fear, and you allow Fear to stack with itself.

True, most(but not all!) sources of fear( fear aura, frightful presence) say you're immune for 24 hours if you successfully save. I think this is a multiple effects do not stack situation, and would say multiple castings of fear don't stack. But if you can get it from different spells then you're golden. (like fear, scare, and cause fear.).

 

[Leif]

But would a Fear effect from a wand stack with a spell cast by a wizard (or other live caster)? I would tend to think that it would under prior edition rules, since magic item creation rules were different, and wands and spells had differing saving throws. But under 3.5's spell storage wand system (still seems current to me), I think that my DM-instincts tell me that the stacking just doesn't make sense. It would extend the original effect until the duration of the last effect to begin lapsed, but, otherwise, I don't see how you get a stacking effect unless you have a different source/cause of the scare. So, technically, I suppose, that's an OVERLAP not a STACK. Have I succeeded in simply stating the patently obvious here?

 

[akbearfoot]

My bad on the 2 saves vs 3....still though, frightened is only slightly better off than panicked.

The only real difference is that you drop what your holding if your panicked. You still have to flee at top speed and even use magic to escape if it is your only avenue of escape.


The quote above says fear effects are cumulative...Thats pretty explicit.

There are no rules about it because the spells dont directly impose penalties or bonuses, and thus do not invoke the 'bonus stacking' rules....They cause conditions, which do not stack and are instead cumulative.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are no rules about it because the spells dont directly impose penalties or bonuses, and thus do not invoke the 'bonus stacking' rules....They cause conditions, which do not stack and are instead cumulative.

Well, there's another rule:
Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.

So if you cast two Aid spells, they don't benefit from both sets of temporary hit points, because they are two identical spells operating on the same target. You can't use two Bestow Curse spells to give someone two different effects, because they are two identical spells operating on the same target. You can't cast Fire Shield twice to deal double damage. Etc.

You could use Fire Shield and, say, a hypothetical Improved Fire Shield, because they aren't identical spells. You could use Fear and Cause Fear, because they aren't identical spells. But two copies of Fear are two identical spells.

(What annoys me are the number of fear effects that have come out lately that explicitly prohibit cumulative effects - they say "This effect does not stack with itself or any other fear effects - it cannot render an already shaken creature frightened, for example". Bah.)

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

My bad on the 2 saves vs 3....still though, frightened is only slightly better off than panicked.

The only real difference is that you drop what your holding if your panicked. You still have to flee at top speed and even use magic to escape if it is your only avenue of escape.

I wasn't explicit in my reply to darthkilmor (sorry), but keep in mind that the condition inflicted by the fear spell lasts only 1 round if you make your save. So, whatever cumulative effects occur, they will not be too terrible. They'll only be terrible upon failed saves (with the other caveats).

Hyp, I hear you say 'bah' but I consider it an attempt at balance. I'd much rather see DM's houserule some effects to stack after careful consideration than to have to try and 'fix' an overpowered, unforeseen combination.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I wasn't explicit in my reply to darthkilmor (sorry), but keep in mind that the condition inflicted by the fear spell lasts only 1 round if you make your save. So, whatever cumulative effects occur, they will not be too terrible. They'll only be terrible upon failed saves (with the other caveats).

Also keep in mind that per Rules Compendium, a cumulative fear effect lasts as long as the higher duration effect... so if you have an effect that causes someone to be shaken for five rounds, then hit them with Fear, they'll be frightened for five rounds if they make their save - the one-round-shaken effect of Fear upgrades the existing shaken condition to frightened, and it doesn't downgrade again after Fear's one round wears off.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Bah. Now I'm starting to understand why all the "fear effects that have come out lately ... explicitly prohibit cumulative effects."

 

[Ruslanchik]

In Heroes of Horror there is a section on fear effects. It states: "As a general rule, multiple exposures to the same spell or effect do not cause this escalation of fear."

So if you use different fear causing spells, then yes you can move someone from shaken to panicked. But not using the same spell.