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Feat Synnergy and You.

Kemrain

First Post
I've seen a lot of threads lately about how unfavorably the Fighter compares to the updated 3.5 classes. I also saw a thread about drawing a weapon and attacking an opponent who provokes an attack of opportunity. Those threads have me thinking, never a good thing, and what I've come up with is different, to say the least.

Feat Synergy:
Many feats compliment each other in ways currently unsupported by the rules. It makes sense that with Combat Reflexes and Quickdraw you could draw a weapon and attack someone who provoked an attack of opportunity, even though the rules forbid it. Those with the Shot on the Run and Manyshot feats can move, fire and move, or fire multiple arrows at once, but even though drawing arrows is a free action they can’t both be done at once. You have a higher AC using Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively, still making attacks, than you would by devoting yourself fully to defense? Even though you’re proficient, have great Endurance and can Run faster than most, heavy armor and encumberance still slows you right down? What I’m proposing is a way to make these ideas possible and plausible in your game, reward innovative thinking, and reward your players for taking feats that many would regard as beneath notice.
So if you have two feats, you get another special benefit, simply for having both? It’s not a stretch that this idea does little more than grant more feats to those who already have lots of feats. Yes, Fighters benefit the most from Feat Synergy, though that need not be a bad thing. Fighters might get more feats, but many find the class lacking when compared to the other combat classes, especially the 3.5 Ranger and Paladin (both combat classes with plenty of abilities and spells, too.) The Fighter has been reduced to a multiclassing tool, something you take a few levels of to give your character a combat infusion. Though anyone can benefit from Feat Synnergy, the Fighter has the most to gain, and that’s ok.


In practice:

If you have Combat Reflexes, Quickdraw, a 15+ Dex and a BAB of 1+, you may draw a weapon and make an attack of opportunity (at the cost of 3 AoO’s for that round,) upon an opponent who provoked within the area you would have threatened had you drawn your weapon before the attack was provoked. Though multiple attacks of opportunity can be made, only one weapon may be drawn in this manner each round. Though you can attack an opponent you would threaten if you were armed, before you draw and attack you are still considered unarmed, and do not truly threaten an area (and thus, you provide no flanking bonuses to allies.)

In conclusion:

I'm excited about this idea, and I hope to find others who are excited by it as well. I'm hoping to compile a list of possible Feat Synnergies, with the help of ENWorld, for use in my campaigns. It might not be for everyone, but I doubt there's a single person who hasn't come up with some way to use two abilities together that isn't supported in the rules. Let your creativity flow.

- Kemrain the Synergistic.
 
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Here's a suggestion (off the top of my head so take with many grains of salt):

If you have both Improved Grapple and Improved Trip, you may use an opposed Grapple check instead of a Strength check to trip an opponent. Obviously you must already be grappling to do this. If you pin the foe before trying to Trip him, you get an additional +4 on your Grapple check to trip. If you win the opponent is prone. If you wish to, you can choose to remain grappled with the opponent, but then you are prone too. If you lose, there is no effect.

In my own game I allow this mechanic with a separate feat called Improved Pin, but a Feat Synergy could work, too.

I believe this is balanced, and it allows someone who is more skilled to throw a larger or stronger opponent. It's a good synergy because Improved Grapple and Improved Trip have different prerequisites, so a fighter has to be fairly broad-based to get it.
 

You cannot use Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively together. The former overrides the latter. Combat Expertise makes it so you can fight defensively better. That's the point. It doesn't stack.
 

Thaniel said:
You cannot use Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively together. The former overrides the latter. Combat Expertise makes it so you can fight defensively better. That's the point. It doesn't stack.

3.5 Player's Handbook said:
You can chose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round. This bonus stacks with the AC bonus granted by the Combat Expertise feat (page 92)
Emphasis mine. It bothers me that You can get a +7 (+8 with 5+ ranks Tumble, +9 with Two Weapon Defense) dodge bonus to your AC while making attacks, but the most you can get is a +4 (+6 with tumble) bonus when doing nothing but defense. If you can add Power Attack bonus damage on a Coup de Grace, you should be able to add Combat Expertise while on Full Defense.

- Kemrain the Defensive.
 
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Kemrain said:
Emphasis mine. It bothers me that You can get a +7 (+8 with 5+ ranks Tumble, +9 with Two Weapon Defense) dodge bonus to your AC while making attacks, but the most you can get is a +4 (+6 with tumble) bonus when doing nothing but defense. If you can add Power Attack bonus damage on a Coup de Grace, you should be able to add Combat Expertise while on Full Defense.

- Kemrain the Defensive.
I agree. Actually, I had kind of assumed it would work like this without giving it any thought. I would allow Combat Expertise to add to your AC against melee attacks, even if you are using Full Defense. That's why a lone musketeer doesn't die when surrounded by the cardinal's guards. It's swashbuckle-y :)

But it's not a Feat Synergy unless we only allow that benefit when Combat Expertise is combined with another feat. Hmm...

How about Dodge? It's not a requirement for Combat Expertise, but taking both indicates a focus on defense. Sound good?
 

JimAde said:
...If you have both Improved Grapple and Improved Trip, you may use an opposed Grapple check instead of a Strength check to trip an opponent. Obviously you must already be grappling to do this. If you pin the foe before trying to Trip him, you get an additional +4 on your Grapple check to trip. If you win the opponent is prone. If you wish to, you can choose to remain grappled with the opponent, but then you are prone too. If you lose, there is no effect.
I believe this is balanced, and it allows someone who is more skilled to throw a larger or stronger opponent. It's a good synergy because Improved Grapple and Improved Trip have different prerequisites, so a fighter has to be fairly broad-based to get it...

I had to check the rules, to see that you aren't automatically prone while pinned! I've been playing that wrong.. Eheheh.. Whoops!

I like this, a lot. I've seen it done, too, so I'll definately be stealing this for later use. Thanks JimAde, got any more?

- Kemrain the Prone.
 

As an aside: That text about Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively stacking isn't in the 3.5 SRD. Is that the 3.5 PHB you quoted? If so, that's a sneaky difference. I wonder if you'd be violating the OGL if you published an NPC whose stat block stacks the modifiers? :)
 

JimAde said:
I agree. Actually, I had kind of assumed it would work like this without giving it any thought. I would allow Combat Expertise to add to your AC against melee attacks, even if you are using Full Defense. That's why a lone musketeer doesn't die when surrounded by the cardinal's guards. It's swashbuckle-y :)

But it's not a Feat Synergy unless we only allow that benefit when Combat Expertise is combined with another feat. Hmm...

How about Dodge? It's not a requirement for Combat Expertise, but taking both indicates a focus on defense. Sound good?
I had hoped to avoid Dodge for this, but it does make some sense. I tend to agree, however, that Combat Expertise should naturally apply to Full Defense. No Feat Synnergy required for this one, it's just too intuitive. But you do have the right idea.

Because I'm argumentitive, I feel I should justify the possible +11 to AC with CE+FD. Even if it means you can only be hit on a 20, you aren't allowed to attack. You're giving up 100% of your potential damage for a 5% chance to be hit, and in situations where that's worthwhile, it's important to have the option to do so. Combat Expertise is basically the opposite of Power Attack, and if PA can be used in situations where you get all the benefit for none of the drawback, then you should be able to do the same with Combat Expertise.

- Kemrain the Suprised this Thread is Moving so Fast.
 

Kemrain said:
I had to check the rules, to see that you aren't automatically prone while pinned! I've been playing that wrong.. Eheheh.. Whoops!
Yep. I think by "pinned" they must mean a bear hug type thing.

Kemrain said:
I had hoped to avoid Dodge for this, but it does make some sense. I tend to agree, however, that Combat Expertise should naturally apply to Full Defense. No Feat Synnergy required for this one, it's just too intuitive. But you do have the right idea.
Works for me. Like I said I thought it worked like that anyway, so we're even on the rules assumptions :)

Another idea? Here's a non-combat one:
If you have the Diligent and Spell Focus feats: When using a scroll to cast a spell from your focus school, you gain a +2 to your caster level check to activate the scroll.
 

JimAde said:
Another idea? Here's a non-combat one:
If you have the Diligent and Spell Focus feats: When using a scroll to cast a spell from your focus school, you gain a +2 to your caster level check to activate the scroll.
Non-Combat Feat Synergy is rough. I'd be more likley to say that Skill Focus: X would give you some sort of bonus to an action related to what that skill is synergistic with. Skill Focus: Decipher Script applying to Scrolls makes a little more sense to me. The +2/+2 feats are often only tenuously connected (they don't even all use the same stat to modify them), and it would be very hard to find a Synergy that applied to both skills that wasn't overpowered... Unless the skills themselves were underpowered. (Think Use Rope, Forgery, Climb, Jump and Balance, for starters.)

However, the synergy you suggestd, +2 to caster level checks to activate one school of scrolls, is brilliant! I'd never have thought of something like that.

- Kemrain the Focused.
 

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