Feats and Classes (Wyre)

[Cheiromancer]

I've been brainstorming mechanics based on Sepulchrave II's "Tales of Wyre" storyhour.

One feat I asked for feedback on is Heretical (closed, but reposted in post 9 of this thread.) Now I want to set down some relating to the various minor sects of Oronthonism; the Irrenites, Urgic Mystics, Reconciliatory Sophists, and so on. Oronthon grants many domains, (the list I've seen is Good, Healing, Law, Protection, Retribution, Sun, Strength, Creation, Exorcism, Glory, Inquisition and Mysticism), but these sects explore less obvious aspects. To model the religious insights of an arbitrary sect, I decided to fiddle with the domain system.

First off, I wanted an "Extra Domain" feat. Which is hard to balance, since a domain's granted power is about equal to a feat. So I made it so you have to take a feat whose main purpose is to let you take the Extra Domain feat. Or maybe a special template or something; I left the door open for that, too. My concern with all these feats is that they are clear without being too wordy. Well, that and I don't want them to be too weak or too strong, either.

Extra Domain (General feat)
Saizho.
You gain access to an extra domain.
Prerequisites: Access to at least two domains, Special.
Benefit: Choose one of your current domains. You may select another domain according to the same rules you selected that one. You gain access to its domain spells and granted power unless otherwise noted.
Special: You may take this feat only if it is specifically allowed by another rule (e.g. the description of a template, feat or class ability). You may take this feat once only unless specified otherwise.

The most basic feat that would "unlock" the Extra Domain feat is the following:

Aspirant (General feat)
Not all things are revealed to me.
You aspire to greater spiritual knowledge.
Benefit: You meet the special prerequisite for the Extra Domain feat. Gain a +2 insight bonus on Knowledge (Religion) checks.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each selection allows you to take Extra Domain one additional time and increases the Knowledge (Religion) bonus by +1.

[edit] changed initial bonus to +2; stacking adds +1 each time [/edit]

I make it do a little bit more than unlock the extra domain feat. But just a little. A human can take it and Extra Domain at first level. Other races would have to wait.

The following feat is a little more complicated. I'm starting to think what might distinguish the different sects mentioned above. Note that Sectarian specifically overrides the wording of the extra domain feat as well as some of the rules about selecting domains. Since feats are chosen after class and skill points, you can take this at first level, too:

Sectarian (General feat)
Not all truths are unequal.
You have unusual insights into your religion.
Pre-requisites: Knowledge (Religion) 4 ranks.
Benefit: You meet the special prerequisite for the Extra Domain feat. Furthermore, you may select the extra domain from any of the domains available in your game world. You may even have opposed alignment domains, but only if your alignment is neutral between them. If you choose a domain that is opposed to one that is normally offered by your deity (e.g. you worship a fire deity and choose the Water domain) you must already have the other domain.

That's probably enough for now. Comments or suggestions?

 

[silvermane]

Apirant should be Aspirant, right?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Apirant should be Aspirant, right?

Oops. Yeah. I'll fix that.

BTW, Sep needs me writing game material for him like Alexander the Great needed someone to plan his battles for him. All this stuff is just from being inspired by his story hour.

I found a place where it says that, according to the Reconciliatory Sophists, "Uedii and Oronthon are one and the same." Uedii is the fertility goddess of the druids. Maybe some kind of druid/cleric synergy class or feat would be good for them?

Urgic Mystics and Irrenites believe that "One cannot live fully in the light by denying the darkness, but only by transcending it." This excuses their dabbling with demons and devils; "left-hand sophistry."

Don't know if feats or classes would be better. Of course, most Irrenites, Urgic Mystics and Reconciliatory Sophists are just experts with knowledge:religion, and maybe concentration (for meditation). As are most members of the church of Oronthon. But having something nifty for the spiritual elite of these groups would be neat.

 

[Tirlanolir]

This is great stuff, Cheiro! On the Aspirant, shouldn't this feat be somewhat comparable to Skill Focus? Skill Focus would give a +3 bonus. All this feat gives is a +1 bonus and serves as a stepping stone to the Extra Domain feat. From a crunch prospective, shouldn't it be more like a +2 or +3 bonus?

 

[Nifft]

Don't forget the big ones...


You Will Respect Mah Authoritah [General]
Your temopral authority is never questioned by PCs.
Prerequisite: NPC.
Benefit: Despite the blatant truth -- that you could easily be forced to comply with the wishes of the PCs, through means martial or magical -- they treat you like a real person, and have respect for your wishes.
Normal: PCs do any darn thing they think they can get away with, and then some.


-- N

 

[Cheiromancer]

This is great stuff, Cheiro! On the Aspirant, shouldn't this feat be somewhat comparable to Skill Focus? Skill Focus would give a +3 bonus. All this feat gives is a +1 bonus and serves as a stepping stone to the Extra Domain feat. From a crunch prospective, shouldn't it be more like a +2 or +3 bonus?

I'm torn. At +2, aspirant would be worth about half a feat. But aspirant stacks with itself and with skill focus, so that moves it up slightly. Then consider what these two feats (Aspirant and Extra Domain) give you:

One domain ability
Access to domain spells
+X to knowledge religion checks

Now, I am assuming that the domain has a good domain ability or else some good domain spells, but not both. The average deity might have one (or maybe two) domains that have great domain abilities (like Luck or Freedom) or great spells, but if so the character probably already took them.

So, either the first or the second domain is worth a feat in its own right. The other ability is sort of "meh"- not worth a feat, or only a weak feat. The bonus to knowledge religion checks is intended to make this left-over ability a little better.

But if the bonus is worth more than half a feat, it plus the left-over ability might be too much.

On the other hand, skill focus: knowledge is really only used as a pre-requisited for something else. Unlike SF: Diplomacy or SF: Disable Device, there is not a lot of use for it on its own.

Let's try it at +2 and see if anyone objects.

Nifft:

Can you think of any NPCs in the story hour who might have had You Will Respect Mah Authoritah? Consider this excerpt regarding Cynric, the Patriarch of the dominant religon of Wyre:

"I trust that Lord Oronthon gave you sound advice?" Cynric smiled humourlessly as he looked at Mostin.
Mostin bristled momentarily, and then erupted.

"I admit to no superior anywhere within the cosmos - least of all your patriarchal, anally fixated god. My apotheosis is assured. I will transcend all limits observed by petty religion, and expand until my consciousness embraces the totality of possible existences. However, I admit that my perfection is still some distance away, and I may have erred in my communication with the entity which you worship. The truth is still unknown to me. In any case, I don’t subscribe to your dogma, so I’d be grateful if you didn’t use the same condescending tone with me that you do with your toadies."

"Right on, Mostin," Nwm chimed in.

Ortwin laughed uncontrollably.

 

[Nifft]

Nifft:

Can you think of any NPCs in the story hour who might have had You Will Respect Mah Authoritah?

The Duchess of Trempa (note how concerned everyone is about what she might think in those first few episodes).

The King (all 7 years of him).

The Curia (Ed does not even consider that really, he need not burn, he could ask to be plane shifted to some nice place out of their reach).

Maybe it's just Ed who's respectful.

-- N

 

[Cheiromancer]

Reconciliation of Religion [General]
Uedii and Oronthon are one and the same.
Prerequisites: Turn/rebuke undead and animal companion as class features. You do not need to be able to turn or rebuke undead or actually have an animal companion as long as these abilities are class features.
Benefit: Your class levels stack (to a maximum of your character level) for the purposes of the turn/rebuke undead, animal companion and (if you possess it) wildshape class abilities. Only count class levels which improve the turn/rebuke undead and animal companion class features.

This feat is for Reconciliatory Sophists, of course. The Sophism feat is later on in this post.

For those unfamiliar with the story hour, Uedii is the druidic fertility/nature goddess, and Oronthon is a monotheistic solar deity. I am thinking primarily of cleric/druid multiclassing, but levels of ranger or paladin may be in the mix as well. E.g. A Paladin 2/Ranger 3 with this feat would turn undead as a Paladin 5 and have the animal companion of a Ranger 5.

Note that I am an advocate of using (restricted) gestalt levels in place of prestige classes like Mystic Theurge and Eldritch Knight. This is the "gestalt-5" rule variant:

gestalt-5: A character can take one gestalt level after taking 5 levels in base classes. The gestalt level must be composed of two base classes, and the character must have at least 2 levels in each. For every additional level in a base class, the character may take another gestalt level.

I would allow a feat to allow an extra gestalt level. E.g.

Theurgic Focus [General]
Prerequisites: Ability to cast both arcane and divine spells.
Benefit: At some future time when you advance a level, choose an arcane class and a divine class you have levels in. You may take a gestalt level in these classes.
Special: If you use a rules variant that allows a limited number of gestalt levels, the gestalt level gained by this feat counts as a level of a base class.

Without this feat, the best a multiclass wizard/cleric could do under the gestalt-5 rules variant is to cast spells like a wiz 17/clr 11 (9th and 6th level spells). This feat improves the final caster level by 1 (e.g. wiz 18/clr 11 or wiz 17/clr 12) but would also improve hit dice and saves because of the additional gestalt level.

This feat could be used even if you don't use the gestalt-5 rules. It would allow one to qualify for the Mystic Theurge prestige class at character level 5, and strengthens low level Mystic Theurges. I would recommend that the Mystic Theurge prestige class only improve the spellcasting ability of base classes, not gestalt or prestige classes.

[edit] I no longer endorse the gestalt rules as a patch for the multiclassing rules. The feat might still be valuable, though.

This is an analogue to Reconciliation of Religion:

Mystic Insight [General]
Prerequisites: Turn/rebuke undead and familiar as class abilities. You do not need to be able to turn or rebuke undead or actually have a familiar as long as these abilities are class features.
Benefit: Your class levels stack (to a maximum of your character level) for the purpose of determining the turn/rebuke undead and familiar class abilities. Only count class levels which improve the turn/rebuke undead and familiar class features.

And another:

Insight into the Green
Prerequisites: Familiar and animal companion as class abilities. You do not need to actually have a familiar or an animal companion as long as these abilities are class features.
Benefit: Your class levels stack (to a maximum of your character level) for the purpose of determining the familiar, animal companion and (if you have it) wildshape class abilities. Only count class levels which improve the familiar and animal companion class features.

Note that these are relatively weak feats. Multiclass wizard/clerics typically don't care much about turning undead, and the improvement of their familiars (if they even have them) is rarely a high priority. Similar remarks apply for wizard/druids. So I offer the following feat which is better, for these characters, than Practiced Spellcaster:

Theurgic Adept [General]
Prerequisites: Ability to cast arcane and divine spells, Mystic Insight or Insight into the Green.
Benefit: Your arcane and divine class levels stack (to a maximum of your character level) for the purpose of determining your caster level. This does not affect your spells known or your spells/day.

Naturally I need to provide an analogue for Reconciliation of Religion:

Sophism [General]
Prerequisites: Ability to cast divine spells from two different spell lists. Reconciliation of Religion.
Benefit: Your divine class levels stack (to a maximum of your character level) for the purpose of determining your caster level. This does not affect your spells known or your spells/day.

Now I have to start thinking about Irrenites. (I think the root word for this is "peace" and they are associated with the "left-hand path").

 

[Cheiromancer]

Heretical Feat and Goetic Magician PrCl.

I'm going to consolidate some of my Wyre material into this thread.

Heretical [General]
The character's actions reflect either a profound but unusual personal philosophy, or a talent for hypocrisy.
Benefit: The character chooses a target alignment (which may be the same as the character’s actual alignment) and either the moral (good/evil) or ethical (law/chaos) axis. The character gains a +2 morale bonus to Charisma and Wisdom based skill checks when interacting with creatures of the target alignment. Furthermore, the character’s alignment and actions count as being one step closer to the target alignment along the chosen axis. For example, a heretical cleric might choose lawful good as the target alignment along the ethical axis. Although the cleric’s true alignment might be chaotic good, the character will count as neutral good as far as a lawful good divine patron is concerned.
Note: If a character has the heretical feat, the target alignment and the morals/ethics axis should be noted in parentheses. For a neutral good paladin the feat would be annotated “heretical (lawful good ethics)” This indicates the primary benefit of the feat (the character counts as one step closer to lawful good on the law/chaos axis).

Characters who are lawful neutral or neutral good sometimes take this feat to become paladins. They may be less than perfectly good or lawful (respectively) without losing their paladin abilities. Heretical outsiders with this feat can act atypically while retaining their subtype and alignment based abilities. Magical effects do not reveal or act on a heretical character’s true alignment, only the alignment as modified by this feat.

Note that this feat allows evil clerics of good deities to still cast spells, and not detect as evil. It also allows fiends to behave out of character. More material on fallen angels and risen demons is in the works.

A lawful good character could choose the heretical (lawful good ethics) feat because of the benefit it provides when dealing with like-minded folk. However, possessing this feat makes it easier for characters to slide away from their target alignment. Consider how lawful neutral (or even lawful evil) characters in a predominantly lawful good organization could take the heretical (lawful good morality) in order to facilitate social interaction with lawful good types. The +2 to Wisdom and Charisma based skill checks would bring quick advancement in most bureaucracies, and the tenor of the organization could easily switch to lawful neutral. In theory this shift could be counterbalanced by heretical (lawful good ethics) types, but neutral good or chaotic good characters are not attracted to bureaucracies the way that lawful neutral or lawful evil characters are.



Here's a class that I posted over in the Rogue's gallery, and modified according to The Jester's feedback.

Goetic Magician

From "The Ethical Use of Arcane Magic: an Oronthonian's Guide," by Deacon Rhodin of Iua.

"Beware the temptations of Goetia, for those who would use diabolism to achieve their foul ends, our Lord has no mercy. Pain and suffering immeasurable shall be their lot, as their souls are condemned to the pit. There they will be immersed in great lakes of boiling lead, until the last days."

Roland’s discourse continues in a similar flowery and rhetorical vein for several pages, admonishing the true believer against using dark magics and citing numerous theologians to back up his point. Further into the chapter, beneath a stylized plate of a wizard fleeing from a horned demon, Roland finally addresses the nature of Goetic magic.

"What is Goetia, you may ask? It is the greatest peril. It is dealing with fiends to achieve your ends, and claiming that your ends are good. Only the purest and most stalwart of souls may endure such vileness without the taint falling upon them. Are you one of these? I doubt it.”

Several magical diagrams follow, accompanied by descriptions of summoning rituals.

A goetic magician is an arcane specialist who follows a strict code of conduct when dealing with fiends.

Hit Dice: d4.

Requirements
To become a goetic magician, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Knowledge (the planes): 6 ranks
Knowledge (religion): 6 ranks
Diplomacy: 6 ranks
Feats: Augment Summoning, Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion) or Skill Focus: Knowledge (the Planes), Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Spell casting: must be able to cast dimensional anchor, lesser planar binding, summon monster IV (or higher) and four arcane enchantment (compulsion) spells, at least one of which must be of level 4 or higher
Languages: must be able to speak Abyssal and Infernal

Class Skills
The goetic magician’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter Four: Skills in the Player’s Handbook for skill descriptions.

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Level...BAB...Fort.....Ref….Will... Special.......................Spellcasting
1.........+0.....+0......+0....+2.... fiendish luck, goetia....+1 level of existing spellcasting class
2.........+1.....+0......+0....+3.... unholy bargain............+1 level of existing spellcasting class
3.........+1.....+1......+1....+3.... goetic initiate.............+1 spell power
4.........+2.....+1......+1....+4.... hard bargainer............+1 level of existing spellcasting class
5.........+2.....+1......+1....+4.... the will and the way....+1 level of existing spellcasting class
6.........+3.....+2......+2....+5.... goetic master.............+1 spell power


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the goetic magician prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The goetic magician gains no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Fiendish Luck (Su): Once per day the goetic magician may reroll one ability or skill check; the better result automatically applies.

Goetia (Ex): The special abilities of the goetic magician class are known collectively as goetia. If a goetic magician uses goetia when summoning or calling a creature, and then instructs that creature to hurt, kill or oppress a non-combatant sentient being of good alignment, future use of goetia will be corrupted. Usually this means that conjured creatures will no longer be completely under the goetic magician’s control.

The degree to which conjured creatures will disobey or try to harm the goetic magician will be similar to the way that the goetic magician abused her powers, but to a greater extent. If the harm is slight and indirect (due to careless instructions, say), conjured monsters will thereafter be unruly, and disobey in minor ways; if the harm is direct and explicitly ordered, they will become completely uncontrolled. A similar corruption of class abilities will occur if the goetic magician fails to fulfill a bargain with a fiend. These penalties can be removed only by fully repairing the harm done and making additional reparations (generally three times the value involved in the breach of the code of conduct).

Unholy Bargain (Su): The goetic magician may, in place of any planar binding spell, cast the corresponding planar ally spell instead. Only evil creatures may be called, and they react to the goetic magician as if she were evil.

Goetic Initiate (Su): When a goetic magician of 3rd level or higher casts a summon monster spell, it is treated as the equivalent spell of one level higher for purposes of summoning evil creatures. For example, a goetic magician refers to the summon monster V list for evil outsiders when casting summon monster IV. Furthermore, when casting any planar binding or planar ally spell, she can call an evil creature with 3 HD more than is normally allowed.

+1 Spell Power: This ability increases the goetic magician’s effective caster level by +1 for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables such as damage dice or range, and caster level checks only. She does not gain additional spell slots or spells known.

Hard Bargainer: At 4th level the goetic magician can bargain with extraplanar creatures so that the payment for services rendered is only 50% the standard fee.

The Will and the Way (Su): At 5th level the xp costs for any conjuration spell the goetic magician casts are reduced by 50%. When she is otherwise capable of casting 8th level spells, she automatically adds Lesser Gate to her list of spells known. Lesser Gate is an 8th level spell that can only use the “creature calling” function, but which is otherwise identical to Gate.

Goetic Master (Su): As Goetic Initiate, except the goetic magician refers to the summoning list two levels higher than the one for the summon monster spell she is casting. Furthermore, when casting any planar binding or planar ally spell, she can call an evil creature with 6 HD more than is normally allowed.

 

[Cheiromancer]

The Irrenites

I'm not sure exactly what the distingushing features of Irrenites might be, but perhaps they include moral and ethical flexibility.
[edit] I just found a passage that said Irrenites are obsessed with numerology. Now how to reflect this in game mechanics? [/edit]

Morally Flexible [General]
One cannot live fully in the light by denying the darkness, but only by transcending it.
Prerequisites: Access to Good and Evil domains, cannot have the good or evil subtype.
Benefit: For the purpose of spells and effects you count as good, evil or morally neutral, whichever is most favorable to you. When you turn undead, you may choose to rebuke undead instead, and vice versa. When you spontaneously cast a cure spell, you may cast an inflict spell instead, and vice versa. You do not have an aura of good or evil, even if you are a cleric or an outsider. The moral component of your alignment, when magically discerned, is always neutral.
Special: Morally flexible characters who also have the heretical feat may ignore moral (good/evil) prerequisites and class requirements without penalty.

A character would probably have to be a cleric with both the Sectarian and the Extra Domain feats to meet the prerequisites, but other material might change this. The feat is most beneficial to clerics, but other characters would also get some benefit if they somehow get those two domains. I think it would be unnecessarily restrictive to put “turn/rebuke undead” or “spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells” in the pre-requisites.

For the sake of completeness there should be a corresponding feat for law/chaos, but I can't think of any benefits corresponding to turning/rebuking undead and curing/causing wounds that would apply to "Ethically Flexible" characters. Maybe it is enough to drop the rather difficult prerequisites:

Ethically Flexible [General]
Prerequesite: You cannot have the lawful or chaotic subtype.
Benefit: For the purpose of spells and effects you count as lawful, chaotic or ethically neutral, whichever is most favorable to you. You do not have an aura of law or chaos, even if you are a cleric or an outsider. The ethical component of your alignment, when magically discerned, is always neutral.
Special: Ethically flexible characters who also have the heretical feat may ignore ethical (law/chaos) prerequisites and class requirements without penalty.