Feats & Fighters

Aegeri, after looking at some feat and power options for the knight, I think it may be possible to shore up the deficiencies you pointed out without resorting to dwarves, World Serpent Grasp, Warpriest, or any specific items. Admittedly, I haven't been able to play with or against a knight yet, but these seem like decent solutions to me:

On the knight getting screwed by forced movement - The paragon tier Roll with It (PHB3) lets you shift 1 after suffering any kind of forced movement, effectively mimicking the dwarf's racial trait. There's a handful of scenarios where it won't quite work (difficult terrain or immobilization come to mind), but most of the time this should work wonders to cover this particular weakness. While not as effective, a fighter utility that also helps in this regard is Hold Your Ground (Utility 10, HotFL), which negates one forced movement per encounter. Finally, if push comes to shove, there's a daily stance at level 6 called Rock Steady (MP), which turns you into a dwarf at the cost of leaving you without stances for an encounter - not the best of solutions, but it might be the ultimate answer to your Blizard Dragon encounter.

On enemies walking away - This is kind of build dependant, but no enemy should ever be able to walk away from a Hammer Knight of level 7 or higher. At that level, the weapon specialization bonus lets a hammer wielder immobilize his target (while it remains adjacent to the knight, at least), so saving up Power Strike until an enemy provokes, and then stopping it on its tracks looks like quite an effective tactic. It can even be used when the enemy shifts, for what it's worth. For this reason, I think that hammer knights don't have that much to envy their weaponmaster cousins when it comes to making OAs.

Admittedly, this doesn't do much to help sword knights, or characters under 7th level. But I really think that higher level knights, or at least some knight builds not requiring specific races or combos, are not as flawed as you suggest.
 

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Unless the skirmisher is teleporting out of the aura, or has already gotten someone else to move the knight for them (or can force move the knight as a minor/free/interupt ... shifting as an interupt is also good) then being knocked prone as an OA is arguably more damaging then being stopped, especially if they have a standard which let's them move + attack, since they can do that after a weaponmaster's OA, but not after being knocked prone. There are some lurkers that can get around the Serpent/Line combination (having bonuses vs. AC, teleporting, etc) but then again, there are also enemies that can shed marks.
This argument would be valid if a great chunk of skirmishers didn't just outright ignore OAs with their movement or attack + movement powers in the first place. It also forgets that many lurkers have mechanics to turn invisible, which also lets them leave without provoking OAs.

I mean your problem here is getting the OA in the first place to make anything matter. Many of them simply aren't going to give you it and some like the wraith, will never give you a second hit (due to reacting and teleporting away + become invisible).
Psikus said:
Aegeri, after looking at some feat and power options for the knight, I think it may be possible to shore up the deficiencies you pointed out without resorting to dwarves, World Serpent Grasp, Warpriest, or any specific items.
I find it amusing that you then mention resorting to a specific weapon group actually (though again I agree with hammers due to the immobilization factor, which can help considerably). The options for forced movement is only adequate though and actually not much of a solution at all. None of those options compares to being a dwarf - who can also take them as well on top of his usual resistance. Being able to 1/encounter get back once isn't as effective as outright ignoring it all day, every day (and reducing all longer slides/pulls/pushes as well). Also again as Walter actually concedes, this doesn't change the Knights reliance on World Serpents Grasp and Defend the Line especially.

This also doesn't help the Knight with Skirmishers/Lurkers who will outright ignore him and usually can avoid provoking OAs easily (especially skirmishers). I do find that power swapping come and get it helps a *lot* here.
 
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There is some odd math going on in this thread. Unless you're at extreme ends of the d20 for hit/miss chance, shield will turn a hit into a miss 4 times out of 20. The end. The mark penalty and whatever else on there does not change that math, unless they've pushed it to a point where shield actually becomes LESS useful because now the monster needs an 18 to hit before shield.

Shield is not suddenly 'effective' 50% of the time because other penalties made the attack miss. Shield only matters if you have to use it to make something miss, and that is going to be those same 4 times out of 20 more often than not.
 

Aegeri, after looking at some feat and power options for the knight, I think it may be possible to shore up the deficiencies you pointed out without resorting to dwarves, World Serpent Grasp, Warpriest, or any specific items.
Those are still specific solutions, though. The crux of Aegeri's problem with the Fighter isn't really the way it can be circumvented (the Fighter can be circumvented in the same general ways) it's that the Fighter gets the -2 mark penalty as a consolation prize for having at least tried. ;)
 


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