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General Tabletop Discussion
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Feats that combine class features
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<blockquote data-quote="Zurai" data-source="post: 3817180" data-attributes="member: 52324"><p>No, neither is. Bards still get up to 6th level arcane spellcasting, and Rogues get: Evasion, Trap Sense (spread out over 6 levels), Trapfinding, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, and special abilities (spread out over 4 levels).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely. A bard4/rogue4 has (offensively) 2d6 sneak attack and a maybe a single level 2 arcane spell. As an 8th level character. An 8th level bard would have 3rd level spells and improved <em>inspire courage</em>; An 8th level rogue would have 4d6 sneak attack and improved uncanny dodge.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Full spellcasting. Which isn't gonna happen with a feat.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Generally, the "combine two classes" feats combine a strong class feature and a weak class feature, or two weak class features with a special effect. An example of the former is Swift Hunter, which combines skirmish and favored enemy for scout/rangers. An example of the latter is Devoted Tracker, which combines smite evil and wild empathy for paladin/rangers - but also lets the character combine his animal companion and special mount.</p><p></p><p>Bardic Music is a pretty weak class feature unless you devote your entire character to it. If the prospective bard/rogue is devoting all his feats and items to bardic music, then chances are his sneak attack isn't going to mean much because he won't be able to handle the damage involved in fighting in melee combat (the only attack method where sneak attack does any real good). Sneak attack is a strong class feature that only requires a moderate amount of support from the character. The combination also promotes MAD: rogues need dex, strength, and con to pull off a good TWF sneak attack build, and bards need charisma to cast spells. The two are, IMO, a good mix.</p><p></p><p>I would agree at putting the pre-reqs at "sneak attack +2d6 and inspire competence class ability" though. That requires a rogue 3/bard 3, which is the same total levels as most other Combined Class feats (most require either 5/1 or 3/3).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Another possibility: Make it stack sneak attack and bardic music uses/inspire courage only. The bard wouldn't get any of the higher-level bardic music uses.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zurai, post: 3817180, member: 52324"] No, neither is. Bards still get up to 6th level arcane spellcasting, and Rogues get: Evasion, Trap Sense (spread out over 6 levels), Trapfinding, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, and special abilities (spread out over 4 levels). Absolutely. A bard4/rogue4 has (offensively) 2d6 sneak attack and a maybe a single level 2 arcane spell. As an 8th level character. An 8th level bard would have 3rd level spells and improved [i]inspire courage[/i]; An 8th level rogue would have 4d6 sneak attack and improved uncanny dodge. Full spellcasting. Which isn't gonna happen with a feat. Generally, the "combine two classes" feats combine a strong class feature and a weak class feature, or two weak class features with a special effect. An example of the former is Swift Hunter, which combines skirmish and favored enemy for scout/rangers. An example of the latter is Devoted Tracker, which combines smite evil and wild empathy for paladin/rangers - but also lets the character combine his animal companion and special mount. Bardic Music is a pretty weak class feature unless you devote your entire character to it. If the prospective bard/rogue is devoting all his feats and items to bardic music, then chances are his sneak attack isn't going to mean much because he won't be able to handle the damage involved in fighting in melee combat (the only attack method where sneak attack does any real good). Sneak attack is a strong class feature that only requires a moderate amount of support from the character. The combination also promotes MAD: rogues need dex, strength, and con to pull off a good TWF sneak attack build, and bards need charisma to cast spells. The two are, IMO, a good mix. I would agree at putting the pre-reqs at "sneak attack +2d6 and inspire competence class ability" though. That requires a rogue 3/bard 3, which is the same total levels as most other Combined Class feats (most require either 5/1 or 3/3). Another possibility: Make it stack sneak attack and bardic music uses/inspire courage only. The bard wouldn't get any of the higher-level bardic music uses. [/QUOTE]
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