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<blockquote data-quote="Felnar" data-source="post: 3817949" data-attributes="member: 30971">well, i guess we disagreethe rogue already got Evasion, Trapfinding, Trap Sense, and Uncanny Dodge out of the way in the first 4 levels.&nbsp; So that leaves Improved Uncanny Dodge, 4 special abilities, and several increases to Trap Sense (whats that ability even worth?)Bard spellcasting, even at level 20 isnt stellar.&nbsp; Bardic Music is a lot of the class.The 8th level rogue traded:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">8 skill points</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">2d6 sneak attack</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">one level of Trap Sense</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Improved Uncanny Dodge</li>
</ul>for:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Good Will Save (+3 higher than rogue 8) (and extra +2 reflex by RAW)</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bardic Music, 4 uses (countersong, fascinate, inspire courage +1, inspire competence)</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bardic Knowledge +4</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Spell List</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">three 0th level, three 1st level, and one 2nd level spell</li>
</ul>I dont see that as cripplingdo you still think there should be a single feat that gives: 2d6 sneak attack, 4 bardic music uses, and inspire courage +2?MAD isnt any more of a problem than it is for other caster/non-caster multiclassingbut thank you for reminding me about the 'Devoted' feats, i knew there were some &quot;combine two classes&quot; feats i was missingtake a look at 'Devoted Performer'.&nbsp; It gives almost nothing compared to either feat you're proposing.Torscha- if your group does decide to use a new feat, please report back with how it worked out.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Felnar, post: 3817949, member: 30971"] well, i guess we disagree the rogue already got Evasion, Trapfinding, Trap Sense, and Uncanny Dodge out of the way in the first 4 levels. So that leaves Improved Uncanny Dodge, 4 special abilities, and several increases to Trap Sense (whats that ability even worth?) Bard spellcasting, even at level 20 isnt stellar. Bardic Music is a lot of the class. The 8th level rogue traded: [list] [*]8 skill points [*]2d6 sneak attack [*]one level of Trap Sense [*]Improved Uncanny Dodge [/list] for: [list] [*]Good Will Save (+3 higher than rogue 8) (and extra +2 reflex by RAW) [*]Bardic Music, 4 uses (countersong, fascinate, inspire courage +1, inspire competence) [*]Bardic Knowledge +4 [*]Bard Spell List [*]three 0th level, three 1st level, and one 2nd level spell [/list] I dont see that as crippling do you still think there should be a single feat that gives: 2d6 sneak attack, 4 bardic music uses, and inspire courage +2? MAD isnt any more of a problem than it is for other caster/non-caster multiclassing but thank you for reminding me about the 'Devoted' feats, i knew there were some "combine two classes" feats i was missing take a look at 'Devoted Performer'. It gives almost nothing compared to either feat you're proposing. Torscha- if your group does decide to use a new feat, please report back with how it worked out. [/QUOTE]

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