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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6109710" data-attributes="member: 1465">Sincerely the current implementation doesn't strike me as clever. I understand your idea, but let's check the current rules (IIRC, please correct if wrong):- proficiency with thieves' tools is required to disable traps (DT) and open locks (OL) (necessary and sufficient condition), but doesn't automatically grant the skill die bonus on them- all Rogues are proficient in thieves' tools, no other class is by default- there are no DT and OL in the skill list, i.e. both Rogues and non-Rogues cannot get these skills via background or skill selection- some but not all Rogue also have these bonuses via bonus feats: "Thief" grants OL, "Treasure Hunter" grants DT, no scheme grants both- the only other way to get your skill die bonus on DT and OL is through feats, this is needed by every Rogue who wants to be good at both (at best your scheme gives one or the other)- every non-Rogue who wants to cover one or the other needs to take the relative feat, which grants both the thieves' tool proficiency and the skill die bonusGranted, they admit the Rogue is "in transition" so we can bet the schemes won't remain like these.This IMHO is a very complicated way that seems to seek the purpose of making skills optional, by making feats mandatory in the standard game. AFAIK (but I might be wrong) most people like skills and are going to have them in the game anyway, but not so many people like feats, that's at least my impression from our forums, but WotC might have better info from playtest feedback.If the real purpose of this system is "remove skills from the basic game", all they would need to do for the Basic Rogue is keep the thieves' tool proficiency in the class description. It's already there! It grants the ability to DT and OL. It doesn't grant the bonus, but if skills aren't used, then the skill dice bonus isn't used either. And for the standard game this only makes feats mandatory. At least they should also put DT and OL back to the skill list (and also add thieves' tools proficiency with these skills!), because otherwise there is no way for a group that doesn't use feats to have non-Rogues pick up these abilities.</blockquote>

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