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<blockquote data-quote="Magus_Jerel" data-source="post: 128804" data-attributes="member: 3940">um - it doesn't open up a can of worms at all.Feeblemind's -4 kicks in only if your effects are ARCANE - not divine as in the examples you have mentioned.Gnomes however, DO get the absolute shaft.There is anoter bit of text that I note here...... such as sorcerers or wizards, or use arcane spell like effects ...hmm...is an arcane &quot;spell like ability&quot; a &quot;spell like effect&quot;?I would hope so - which means they not only get the -4, but also have their abilities shut down like the wizard and the sorcerer.Given the &quot;ideal&quot; target of a creature who uses arcane &quot;effects&quot; - this spell has a base DC of 19 - before modifiers for intelligence, feats, or what have you are applied.&nbsp; In effect, it is a ninth level spell cast out of a fifth level slot when it comes to saving against it.That makes it broken as all hell in and of itself.now - give Me any other fifth level spell that can knock a creature's ability score down by 35 points.(take 20th level wizard with the following mods base 18 +2 race +5 levels +5 inherent +6 item enhancement = 36, then feeblemind him - dropping the ability score by a WHOPPING 35 points).Now - the counter argument I see here is that you COULD do some hideous damage to someone's con score with something like the poison spell (druid 3 - and evil bad and wicked - who says druids don't have teeth) or a dose of black lotus poison (IIRC the primary and secondary damages are 3d6 con each).yet - con damage hits all monster and characters EQUALLY.&nbsp; Now - if you don't have a con score (undead, construct) - well, you are immune to poisions.Hitting intelligence - especially with the &quot;you can use SLA's while feebleminded&quot; interpretation - ONLY hurts true spellcasters - and maims wizards.I still say the spell is unbalancing as written.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Magus_Jerel, post: 128804, member: 3940"] um - it doesn't open up a can of worms at all. Feeblemind's -4 kicks in only if your effects are ARCANE - not divine as in the examples you have mentioned. Gnomes however, DO get the absolute shaft. There is anoter bit of text that I note here... ... such as sorcerers or wizards, or use arcane spell like effects ... hmm... is an arcane "spell like ability" a "spell like effect"? I would hope so - which means they not only get the -4, but also have their abilities shut down like the wizard and the sorcerer. Given the "ideal" target of a creature who uses arcane "effects" - this spell has a base DC of 19 - before modifiers for intelligence, feats, or what have you are applied. In effect, it is a ninth level spell cast out of a fifth level slot when it comes to saving against it. That makes it broken as all hell in and of itself. now - give Me any other fifth level spell that can knock a creature's ability score down by 35 points. (take 20th level wizard with the following mods base 18 +2 race +5 levels +5 inherent +6 item enhancement = 36, then feeblemind him - dropping the ability score by a WHOPPING 35 points). Now - the counter argument I see here is that you COULD do some hideous damage to someone's con score with something like the poison spell (druid 3 - and evil bad and wicked - who says druids don't have teeth) or a dose of black lotus poison (IIRC the primary and secondary damages are 3d6 con each). yet - con damage hits all monster and characters EQUALLY. Now - if you don't have a con score (undead, construct) - well, you are immune to poisions. Hitting intelligence - especially with the "you can use SLA's while feebleminded" interpretation - ONLY hurts true spellcasters - and maims wizards. I still say the spell is unbalancing as written. [/QUOTE]

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