Feeblemind and Spell-like abilities

[android]

Last night, we ran into this situation in our high level campaign: We were battling a Marilith (pg. 42 MM) and I succesfully got off a feeblemind against this thing, to keep it from doing anything nasty (I was not previously familiar with it so I had no idea what it was going to do). Anyways, with an intelligence of zero, the following questions arise:

1. Can the Marilith cast any of her spell-like abilities?
2. Can she think well enough to be able to use them effectively if she can cast them?
3. What effect (if any) would a feeblemind have on the Marilith's physical combat abilities?
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   Any thoughts?

 

[Crothian]

Us Buckeye's need to stick together, so here's the way I see it.

"INT 0 means that the character cannot think and is unconscious in a coma like stupor, helpless."

That's from the SRD. So, I think with this spell successfuly cast, you win. It loses. Just go over and do a CDG.

 

[hong]

Feeblemind doesn't drop Int to zero, it drops it to 1. Also, the only thing it prevents that's relevant here is actual spellcasting. Spell-like abilities are not the same as spells, so she could still get them off. She might not use them to best potential, but I'd say she'd still know that an unholy blight is used to hit bad (good) guys, and teleport w/o error is used to run away. In the latter case, it's a tossup as to where she might teleport to, though.

 

[CRGreathouse]

That's generous, hong. Int 1 is smart as a lizard and less intelligent than a rat. I don't think it would - or could - use spell-like abilities.

The stupidest creature with spell-like abilities in the MM is the dretch (Int 5), followed by a lantern archon (Int 6). Nto only are these much smarter, they have the whole "power of good/evil" thing going for them.

 

[kreynolds]

That's generous, hong. Int 1 is smart as a lizard and less intelligent than a rat. I don't think it would - or could - use spell-like abilities.

The stupidest creature with spell-like abilities in the MM is the dretch (Int 5), followed by a lantern archon (Int 6). Nto only are these much smarter, they have the whole "power of good/evil" thing going for them.

The spellcasting abilities of a Marilith are based upon Charisma, not Intelligence. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

[gfunk]

The spellcasting abilities of a Marilith are based upon Charisma, not Intelligence. Just thought I'd point that out.

I don't think that's relevant here, b/c I think we would all agree that a Feebleminded Sorcerer can't cast spell like a Feebleminded Wizard. From the PHB, p. 203:

"The creature is unable to cast spells, use Intelligence-based skills, or communicate coherently. Still the creature knows who its friends are and can follow them and even protect them."

Further down,

"Creatures who can cast arcane spells, such as sorcerers or wizards, or use arcane like spell-effects suffer a -4 penalty to their saving throws."

So, I think it's pretty clear that (a) the Marilith can no longer use spell-like abilities and (b) she should have gotten a -4 to her saving throw.

 

[android]

oops

my mistake on the intelligence of zero. it does in fact drop it to one, and that's how we played it. that was just a brain fart i guess.

what she ended up doing was teleporting back to a safe place, which we presumed to be her room or some other place that she was intimately familiar with and would feel safe in. unfortunately, someone discovered the problem and a few rounds later, she returned completely healed. most likely she ran into a cleric who was able to get rid of it so she could rejoin.

 

[Victim]

Spell like abilities aree different from actually casting spells. Therefore, a feebleminded Marilinth wouldn't suffer as much as an actual sorcerer.

 

[hong]

That's generous, hong. Int 1 is smart as a lizard and less intelligent than a rat. I don't think it would - or could - use spell-like abilities.

The stupidest creature with spell-like abilities in the MM is the dretch (Int 5), followed by a lantern archon (Int 6). Nto only are these much smarter, they have the whole "power of good/evil" thing going for them.

Hey, this is a marilith we're talking about. It's got the power of good/evil thing going for it, too. And besides, I think of spell-like abilities as being things that you just _know_ how to use. You may not know how to use them properly (eg dropping a fireball at ground zero), but you can still get them off.

 

[kreynolds]

"The creature is unable to cast spells, use Intelligence-based skills, or communicate coherently. Still the creature knows who its friends are and can follow them and even protect them."

Sorry, I gotta pick apart the crap outta this statement:

The creature is unable to cast spells

Hmmm....no mention of spell-like abilities...

use Intelligence-based skills

Interesting...still no mention of spell-like abilities...

or communicate coherently

I'll be damned...still no mention of spell-like abilities...

...did you actually have an argument here?