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<blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8427683" data-attributes="member: 7032025">Because all the charm in 4e are from combat abilities, I should not be too worried. But once more, out of 5 utilities powers (compared to scores of spells), all 5 are mostly combat and 2 could be used during exploration... Right.Great, out of all the 4e PH and its hundreds of powers, you managed to find less than ten who are not combat orientated although some are still written for combat use. Amazing how non-combat that edition is...Now please do the same exercise with the 5e PH and count how many spells and powers are designed for out of combat use. Can I bet that the ratio is at least 20 to one ?OK, and this out of how many archetypes ? Right...And then D&amp;D is a high fantasy game, which means epic magic. And have you really played 5e at high level ? From experience, even fighters and rogues are not underpowered, in particular because of the nerfing of high level magic through concentration and reduced slots, but also because of items and situations in which magic works less well. Moreover, if you absolutely decide to play one of the very few completely magic-less classes, it's also because you enjoy them.Balance is artificial anyway, I'd much rather have story-based balance that I can control and adjust than gamesystem-based enforced balanced that strangles my game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lyxen, post: 8427683, member: 7032025"] Because all the charm in 4e are from combat abilities, I should not be too worried. But once more, out of 5 utilities powers (compared to scores of spells), all 5 are mostly combat and 2 could be used during exploration... Right. Great, out of all the 4e PH and its hundreds of powers, you managed to find less than ten who are not combat orientated although some are still written for combat use. Amazing how non-combat that edition is... Now please do the same exercise with the 5e PH and count how many spells and powers are designed for out of combat use. Can I bet that the ratio is at least 20 to one ? OK, and this out of how many archetypes ? Right... And then D&D is a high fantasy game, which means epic magic. And have you really played 5e at high level ? From experience, even fighters and rogues are not underpowered, in particular because of the nerfing of high level magic through concentration and reduced slots, but also because of items and situations in which magic works less well. Moreover, if you absolutely decide to play one of the very few completely magic-less classes, it's also because you enjoy them. Balance is artificial anyway, I'd much rather have story-based balance that I can control and adjust than gamesystem-based enforced balanced that strangles my game. [/QUOTE]

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