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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8427732" data-attributes="member: 84112">4e fighter is NOT magic... it is extraordinary.  out of hundreds of powers... just like out of 100s of spells less then a 3rd of them are for things other then killing stuff.there are just as many non combat things in 4e as any other edition (maybe MORE when you go pre 3e when skills where non weapon prof)BTW i DID go through the 5e books, and the only way a fighter and rogue can impact on non combat is skill...making things up (both apply to every edition so what ever even break) or take spell casting.You asked out of how many archtypes...I think you mean subclass, something wizards warlocks clerics and others have at 2nd level, but not fighter rogue barbarian ranger monk... so no no archtypes.Make no mistake I have played through 20th level in 5e even taking epic boons, and what I have found is what I found in 3e and 2e before... a fighter can rock at combat, can be fun to RP, but if you want to DO something in a social or exploration situation you need spells. ANything a fighter without spells can do at 20th level (Not counting hitting things or damaging things) comes from skills that anyone can have or creative role play that anyone can do... on the other hand even a 7th or 8th level spell caster can keep up in combat (for it's level) still have skills/rp but ALSO has a pile of cool social and exploration abilities...rogues at least get better at skills.4e lets me play Jack oneil, Bruce wayne, James Bond, Conan. Heck 4e did better at playing a knight of the cross from the Dresden novels. and by mistake you perffectly got the flaw of 5e let me quote agains "if you absolutely decide to play one of the very few completely magic-less classes" CASTER SUPREMACY   "Hey how do we give rangers cool things...give them spells"  "FIghters don't really have cool things what should we do? give them a subclass with spells"</blockquote>

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