Feeling short changed by 4th Ed.

[Grom Stonekin]

After reading the 4th Ed PHB it occurs to me that its not really a complete version of D&D the way 3rd Ed was. 3rd Ed had more classes, tons of spells and just seemed like a more complete rule set. By comparison, the 4th ed. PHB deliberately does not include classic classes, races and spells that have been part of the D&D experience for over 30 years (Bards, Druids, Half-orcs, Charm Person come to mind). If you want to use this classic D&D material in your game, you will have to wait (and shell out $35 more) for the PHB II. The Half-orc Barbarian became an iconic race/class combo with 3rd ed. but you can't play it with 4th ed. as released. Likewise, 4th ed classes like the Warlock and particularly the Wizards barely have enough "powers" to make them interesting. Warlocks get only three pacts even though WotC clearly has many more sitting on a shelf waiting for the splat books (Undead pact, elemental pact, dragonic pact, etc, etc.). The poor Wizard, whose class feature is the spellbook, is left with precious little to fill it with. I feel short-changed. WotC knows players are eager to play their favorites from past editions and they are holding out on some of the games best stuff...on purpose. To get a complete D&D game that has the best of the prior versions, players will have to buy the PHB II (and maybe PHB III) and lots of splat books. When the PHB II hits the stores, l think players will be killing off their own characters left and right or begging their DM to reboot the campaign just so they can play the races and classes they actually wanted to play all along but could not. WotC will definitely sell more books with this savvy marketing strategy but more $ for WotC does not ensure that D&D is now or will be a better, more enduring game.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, i would have preferred more options, more races, more classes, more feats, more powers and everything, but I can also not fail to notice that all 3 core rulebooks are packed full with useable material.

So, what can I say - unless they have given us a different system, they have no alternative to do it as they did. And since I happen to like the system, I can't really complain.

The advantage is that the splat books, PHB IIs etc will all be actually useful and instead of possibly breaking the game, greatly enhance it.

The 3.x core rulebooks had more classes and more spells, but they already had all the inherent balance problems, game-breaking elements, broken math and inconsistencies that 4E tries to avoid. Maybe the current approach is the only way to get it right?

 

[Ydars]

I agree with the OP entirely; everything in 4E save the combat system feels like it is lacking something, and even the vast number of powers don't actually give potential players that many options.

I was willing to give WoTC the benefit of the doubt because one of their stated design goals was to bring in new players. This version of the PHB is probably more user friendly than past editions because the font is much larger and the pages are not so packed.

This is what I believed anyway, until three weeks ago when I saw that they are releasing a "basic game" for newbies in November.

Now I am slightly more annoyed than I was before because I can see no reason, except profiteering, for this method of release. I still think that the new books are better laid out (for some people; I actually don't like them, but many people do on these boards).

 

[Keefe the Thief]

As someone who uses D&D just as one of his many games, i always thought that one of the worst things the game did was to cram every ounce of the past into every new edition. Giving individual classes more space by dropping options was a tremendous idea. And the wall of spells.... no, not to talk about that. It... hurts.

I had hoped for this chance since 2e, and 4e delivered - finally.

 

[amethal]

I don't see what else they could have done. Classes take longer to describe, so you are going to get fewer classes as a result.

3.5 could have included more classes by getting rid of some of the countless spells in the PHB.

What part of the 4th edition PHB do you think could have been cut to make way for what you feel is lacking?

 

[Psion]

If you want to use this classic D&D material in your game, you will have to wait (and shell out $35 more) for the PHB II. The Half-orc Barbarian became an iconic race/class combo with 3rd ed. but you can't play it with 4th ed. as released.

Ain't marketing wonderful?

When the PHB II hits the stores, l think players will be killing off their own characters left and right or begging their DM to reboot the campaign just so they can play the races and classes they actually wanted to play all along but could not.

Sounds like the 2e experience, in an odd sort of way.

 

[Ginnel]

you should also bear in mind that the Fighter, the Rogue, the Warlock, the knight (warlord) have access to 30 odd spells at the moment too which is infinitely better than the 0 in previous editions, this isn't including powers (which aren't spells) which would extend that further.

I think having classes equal in options is far far superior than having a few classes with 1-4 workable options and another class with 200.

As for the druid, wasn't that some kind of specialist priest in 2nd edition? Half Orc Barbarian, such a tradition its been in one edition, the bard would have been nice but not much of a deal breaker, replace with a warlord with a change of flavour and access to rituals, maybe even multiclass wizard for the time being or you know what maybe try out a different class or two?

As to the feeling of being short changed the new players hand book is chock full of stuff, I can't see how they would have been able to insert more crunch in there.

Getting rid of my favourite class/race seems to be a stale arguement, when with a bit of reflavouring they can be put back in, bear in mind the people pointing out this as a factor will have the previous books of background for the races/classes. But my main point from above, your favourite class/race combo not about?

Just suck it up and play a new one, you might just like it.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Well, remember that there are also a lot of pages devoted to level 21-30 powers, feats, destinies and such, which the 3.x core did not have. That space had to come from somewhere...

Personally I'm fine with things the way they are going. Yes, 4e is still a little limited for now, but that will get better int ime with expansion books and such. In the meantime the core books still have inspired in me a few interesting concepts that I never would have thought of by myself or with the 3.x system.
I actually really feel like playing my Dragonborn cleric of Kord/ranger were before I hardly ever played rangers and I only once played a cleric that lasted all about 2 sessions...

 

[vagabundo]

There is definitely less text in the phb, due to the new layout. But, that aside, each class has a similar amount of content and the amount of content/tiers: heroic>paragon>epic (as it should be).

I prefer the new layout, much easier to read than the 3.x edition layout (text was too small from my rheumy eyes).

Overall I'm happy even though it means less content. As new source books come out I'll be more inclined to purchase them than I was with 3e.

 

[delericho]

The relative lack of PC options isn't too bad, IMO - they'll be filling out the range of powers in the next few months in the form of splatbooks, and adding several new races and classes with each new PHB.

What bothers me a lot, though, is the relative lack of monsters. Try building a level 1 adventure of decent length that doesn't feature either kobolds or goblins.

WotC, we need more monsters!