Silverleaf
First Post
Virel said:
Use the paper to light up your cigar. Take a long puff or two and blow some smoke at him. Then say: "You're wrong, Jimmy. That beholder's got four eyestalks left."
Fellow DM's how would you deal with this player?
- Thread starter Virel
- Start date
Use the paper to light up your cigar. Take a long puff or two and blow some smoke at him. Then say: "You're wrong, Jimmy. That beholder's got four eyestalks left."
James Heard said:
There are issues of integrity even when it comes to hobbies. I understand that you think this way of describing it is strong language. But the player must have known that his DM was keeping track of the beholder stats, so the ONLY reason to follow along was to challenge the DM. I think the player definitely has issues of trust with the DM, and I think it's fair to say what he did was rude - keeping in mind that rudeness is in the eye of the culture.
James Heard said:
It's a little like if I ask you if I left my Dungeon Master's Guide over at your house, and you say no, and then I break in and look around just to be sure. Sure, you could make a mistake and actually have my DMG at your house without realizing it, but I don't think you'd like to be on that side of the argument. Now sure, the analogy depends on the keeping track of monster's stats as being equivalent to the privacy of someone's home; but I don't think that's so far of a stretch. DMs put alot of themselves into the game, and I think players need to be considerate.
James Heard said:
It's not just math, and calling it such really bypasses the basic issue. Sure, no game is worth getting mad about. But check out a little league game some time. Or just watch people drive on the road. Petty issues affect self-esteem, it's human nature and IMO none of us are immune to it. And especially in a situation where a DM sets himself up to be a sort of a leader of a group and whether or not they have fun is his responsibility is something that's bound to affect a person. I think it's understandable that he got upset, and I think handled it fine by ending the session - unless I missed something I don't think he was disruptive.
TheAuldGrump
First Post
Hangin's too good for him!
Burnin's too good for him!
He oughta be chopped into little tiny pieces and buried alive!
More seriously, he has apologized, hopefully he meant it. I would suggest taking a few days breather, if you are still upset the next game day then suggest everyone going out to a movie or something instead, just relax and do non gaming stuff, pick it up the next week.
But mostly, just let it go, stuff happens. He may have had a DM who needed to be kept watch on before. Some DMs do try to screw the players. (I have no idea why. Personally I like my players! The game would be kind of boring without them.)
See a movie, eat food that is bad for you, drink some cider, and relax.
The Auld Grump
Burnin's too good for him!
He oughta be chopped into little tiny pieces and buried alive!
More seriously, he has apologized, hopefully he meant it. I would suggest taking a few days breather, if you are still upset the next game day then suggest everyone going out to a movie or something instead, just relax and do non gaming stuff, pick it up the next week.
But mostly, just let it go, stuff happens. He may have had a DM who needed to be kept watch on before. Some DMs do try to screw the players. (I have no idea why. Personally I like my players! The game would be kind of boring without them.)
See a movie, eat food that is bad for you, drink some cider, and relax.
The Auld Grump
MoonZar
Explorer
Hello pal,
I think that time will correct this issue by itself.
Sometime you just need to take a break for 2-3 weeks, at least the magic use guy know that he was wrong, so the only thing you have to do is to change your mind. Do something else like going see a movies with all of the players of the group, just to get fresh air and then you'll feel it more easy to start dming again.
I think that time will correct this issue by itself.
Sometime you just need to take a break for 2-3 weeks, at least the magic use guy know that he was wrong, so the only thing you have to do is to change your mind. Do something else like going see a movies with all of the players of the group, just to get fresh air and then you'll feel it more easy to start dming again.
Oryan77
Adventurer
I wouldn't worry about the player. Most of my group does things every session that tick me off. We are mostly a new group (not new to D&D) and I see their annoyances as part of our different playstyles. They are used to having DM's that they couldn't trust, so they question me or make snide comments all the time thinking I'm "messing" up or half-assing things...when I'm not.
You are a better man than I am. I really need to learn to take 5 like you did. I have a very bad temper and even worse, I'm not very patient with people. But I realize that so I'm always trying to work on it. I don't want to DM anymore also when I hear complaints because I think I must suck and my reward for all of my hard work is to hear complaints like they expect me to be perfect. After about a day, I realize I don't suck and I just need to discuss the issue with them. I then come here and read posts which gets me all excited again to DM! After a week I'm fully ready to begin our next session.
A lot of players don't really think about what they are doing. They don't mean to be annoying or a hassle. If a guy actually apologizes at the game and then quickly emails you before you even get home, he's just one of those bumbling idiots that acted without thinking. I'm sure he didn't mean to be a drag and he also needed a few minutes to reflect on what he did until he realizes his mistake.
You are a better man than I am. I really need to learn to take 5 like you did. I have a very bad temper and even worse, I'm not very patient with people. But I realize that so I'm always trying to work on it. I don't want to DM anymore also when I hear complaints because I think I must suck and my reward for all of my hard work is to hear complaints like they expect me to be perfect. After about a day, I realize I don't suck and I just need to discuss the issue with them. I then come here and read posts which gets me all excited again to DM! After a week I'm fully ready to begin our next session.
A lot of players don't really think about what they are doing. They don't mean to be annoying or a hassle. If a guy actually apologizes at the game and then quickly emails you before you even get home, he's just one of those bumbling idiots that acted without thinking. I'm sure he didn't mean to be a drag and he also needed a few minutes to reflect on what he did until he realizes his mistake.
Fieari
Explorer
I had a problem similar to this several months ago. Eventually, that group ended up not working out (for -other- reasons) but with my new group, I had gained some experience in some little things that I would and would not tolerate. The first thing I put on that list was: "The monsters are mine, not the Monster Manual's. If I say that XXX monster has YYY hit points, even though the MM says it should have ZZZ hit points, it has YYY hit points. If I give a monster a nonstandard ability, it has that non-standard ability. Just because you've seen dozens of these monsters in other games you've played means nothing about THIS game."
In such a case, if one of my players told me that something had XXX hp left and that he'd been keeping track, I'd ask him how he knew what number to start with. If he quotes the MM, I'd just smirk and move on, and if he pressed that point I'd say I advanced it, or modified it. I'd say this EVEN IF I HADN'T, HE WAS RIGHT, AND I WAS WRONG. Because the DM isn't allowed to be wrong. The DM being wrong creates situations like this, where things are disrupted and no one is having fun anymore. If he said that he knew where to start because he'd noticed how much damage other eye stalks had taken, I'd just mysteriously say things are happening that he knows nothing of.
If he pressed the issue further, he'd not be in my group any more. And the rest of my players would support that decision.
That's how I'd handle things, however. Your situation is a little bit different. He apologized, realized what a jerk he'd been. I'd give him a second chance there. I'd also, at the beginning of the next session, lay down the rules where it comes to "DM accountability". Something like what I've listed earlier. Say it outright, and if everyone agrees (I can't imagine them not) then you can keep going.
As for your emotional control, I totally understand that issue as well, and if you have any problems, ask your group for one week where you guys do something different. When I'd had a REALLY REALLY stressful day I informed my group that night that we were going to play some cards before the game (Mao, to be specific) otherwise I wouldn't be held responcible for the nasty things I was going to do to their PCs. I think it was important to do something else WITH THE GROUP, because that allowed me to work out my feelings with them around. If I'd just stayed home I wouldn't have been thinking about issues and things.
Hope you don't give up the mantle of DMing. Hope you work your problems out. And good luck.
In such a case, if one of my players told me that something had XXX hp left and that he'd been keeping track, I'd ask him how he knew what number to start with. If he quotes the MM, I'd just smirk and move on, and if he pressed that point I'd say I advanced it, or modified it. I'd say this EVEN IF I HADN'T, HE WAS RIGHT, AND I WAS WRONG. Because the DM isn't allowed to be wrong. The DM being wrong creates situations like this, where things are disrupted and no one is having fun anymore. If he said that he knew where to start because he'd noticed how much damage other eye stalks had taken, I'd just mysteriously say things are happening that he knows nothing of.
If he pressed the issue further, he'd not be in my group any more. And the rest of my players would support that decision.
That's how I'd handle things, however. Your situation is a little bit different. He apologized, realized what a jerk he'd been. I'd give him a second chance there. I'd also, at the beginning of the next session, lay down the rules where it comes to "DM accountability". Something like what I've listed earlier. Say it outright, and if everyone agrees (I can't imagine them not) then you can keep going.
As for your emotional control, I totally understand that issue as well, and if you have any problems, ask your group for one week where you guys do something different. When I'd had a REALLY REALLY stressful day I informed my group that night that we were going to play some cards before the game (Mao, to be specific) otherwise I wouldn't be held responcible for the nasty things I was going to do to their PCs. I think it was important to do something else WITH THE GROUP, because that allowed me to work out my feelings with them around. If I'd just stayed home I wouldn't have been thinking about issues and things.
Hope you don't give up the mantle of DMing. Hope you work your problems out. And good luck.
If the player is worth keeping, I would explain to him that kind of thing will not be tolerated, he either trusts you enough to let you handle things, or he finds a new group. Since he did try to make amends I would give him the benefit of the doubt, but make it very clear that this will not happen again.
As folks have said, I don't know that I'd be worried about regaining your neutrality. You seem to be committed to running a fair game. You handled the situation admirably. (I would have asked him to leave the game after he continued to dispute.)
What you ought to be worried about is this player's already-demonstrated tendency to have no clue when he's completely out of line. I know he apologized -- obviously, that's the right thing for him to have done. If he hadn't, I'd say just ask him to leave.
But there's still a problem: this guy has terrible judgment, and it ruined a session. And people just do not change. Not when the lapse of judgment is that serious. That is a sign of something else that is way off.
I would be very wary.
best,
Carpe
What you ought to be worried about is this player's already-demonstrated tendency to have no clue when he's completely out of line. I know he apologized -- obviously, that's the right thing for him to have done. If he hadn't, I'd say just ask him to leave.
But there's still a problem: this guy has terrible judgment, and it ruined a session. And people just do not change. Not when the lapse of judgment is that serious. That is a sign of something else that is way off.
I would be very wary.
best,
Carpe
twofalls
DM Beadle
Gorrstagg said:
I was following down the list of responses looking for this one to make certain it was voiced. My opinion exactly.
GM's, regardless of the game being run, are leaders, organizers, and the final arbiter of the game. This is well stated.
The only thing I'd add is not to say this in front of the group. Inform him in private, and in person. Be firm but make it clear to him that you aren't mad at him over this anymore, you've just made your decision and he can live with it or choose to leave now.
If you can't get to the point where you aren't mad or can deal with him one on one in a calm fair fashion, then the issue isn't his anymore and no one on this board is going to be able to advise you on how to get over it because only you will know the answer.
Bravo! Again well said.
I've been gaming 27 years myself, maybe that's why I'm agreeing so easily with you're perspective on this.
By the way Virel, kudos to you for taking the time to think about this and then looking for other people's advice. It says good things about you that you are willing to ask for help in a situation like this.
I think this has some excellent perspectives on the issue. I would suggest that you have the player read this thread and then privately meet with him. In this meeting I would let him present his side of the issue first. Then I would let him know that while you may make mistakes in the math and questions / reminders are appreciated once something has been checked your word is final. I would then give him his one and final warning and if he forces you to invoke rule zero he will be removed from the game.
Remember even if he is wrong the DM is always right. Your entire role is to prevent or end the coyboys and indians argument he brought into the game. ( you know *BANG* you're dead. No I'm not you missed. etc etc etc)
If you are as good of a DM as I suspect you are you probably spend 2-3 times as much time on the game as your players do and with very little thanks for it.
Remember even if he is wrong the DM is always right. Your entire role is to prevent or end the coyboys and indians argument he brought into the game. ( you know *BANG* you're dead. No I'm not you missed. etc etc etc)
If you are as good of a DM as I suspect you are you probably spend 2-3 times as much time on the game as your players do and with very little thanks for it.
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