D&D 5E (2024) Feywild technically doesn't mention the Seelie and Unseelie Court

[kigmatzomat]

The designers have stated somewhere like in a blog post or a tweet, that Feywild is a border plane to the Positive Energy Plane and that Shadowfell is the border plane to the Negative Energy Plane.

But nothing written in any of the books has ever stated that though.

5e moved the Positive/Negative farther away to outer-outer planes and sometimes refers to them as Positive Energy and Negative Energy planes. Which is actually more apt, imo, given they are sometimes described as lacking a proper terrain...or terra. So as "material" planes, the feywild seems more "positive" and shadowfell is clearly more "negative"

I see a clear difference from the Raven queen and the Gloaming Queen. The first is more rot and decay while the latter is enjoyjng malicious destruction, where even the animals are murder hobos.

 

[Yaarel]

The 5e 2024 cosmology map omits a representation for the Positive and Negative planes.

The description is: "these two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology". "All existence" includes both positive and negative. Where the description refers to "the raw forces of life and death", I understand these forces include positive energy and negative space. So, in the moment of the Big Bang, the infinite positive energy reveals a single glimpse of itself within vast infinite negative darkness. All else − spacetime, consciousness, electromagnetic force, and matter − explode outward from this point. To the degree that something is finite, its edges are surrounded by the negative absence, allowing it to exist autonomously.

An implication that every thing includes both positive and negative, emphasizes Any ethical alignment. Life inherently orients toward Good and death toward Evil. But the power of positive life can be used for Good or Evil, and the power of negative death can be used for Good or Evil.

The lively seelie Fey are (mostly) positive, and the deathly unseelie Shadow (mostly) negative. Both are likewise Any alignment. If something exists at all, then both positive and negative are in play. The four seasons of the Material world include both positive and negative aspects.

The positive and negative planes are not "things". They are infinity and nothingness respectively. They are both "no-thing-ness". Thus there is no representation for them in the cosmology map.

 

[Corinnguard]

The 5e 2024 cosmology map omits a representation for the Positive and Negative planes.

The description is: "these two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology". "All existence" includes both positive and negative. Where the description refers to "the raw forces of life and death", I understand these forces include positive energy and negative space. So, in the moment of the Big Bang, the infinite positive energy reveals a single glimpse of itself within vast infinite negative darkness. All else − spacetime, consciousness, electromagnetic force, and matter − explode outward from this point. To the degree that something is finite, its edges are surrounded by the negative absence, allowing it to exist autonomously.

An implication that every thing includes both positive and negative, emphasizes Any ethical alignment. Life inherently orients toward Good and death toward Evil. But the power of positive life can be used for Good or Evil, and the power of negative death can be used for Good or Evil.

The lively seelie Fey are (mostly) positive, and the deathly unseelie Shadow (mostly) negative. Both are likewise Any alignment. If something exists at all, then both positive and negative are in play. The four seasons of the Material world include both positive and negative aspects.

The positive and negative planes are not "things". They are infinity and nothingness respectively. They are both "no-thing-ness". Thus there is no representation for them in the cosmology map.

Your post reminds me of Yin and Yang. While the two are opposites of one another, they aren't antagonistic with one another either. Instead, they complement and perpetuate each other's existence.

 

[Yaarel]

I am revisiting the damage types and their planar associations. The point here is, any of these can be Any alignment and both Positive and Negative.

Acid (Elemental Chaos)
Cold (Water and Earth)
Fire (Fire and Earth)
Lightning (Air and Fire)
Thunder (Air and Water)

Force (Ethereal)
Necrotic (Shadow)
Radiant (Fey)
Weapon: Bludgeon, Pierce, Slash (Material)

Poison (Body)
Psychic (Soul)

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I am revisiting the damage types and their planar associations. The point here is, any of these can be Any alignment and both Positive and Negative.

Acid (Elemental Chaos)
Cold (Water and Earth)
Fire (Fire and Earth)
Lightning (Air and Fire)
Thunder (Air and Water)

Force (Ethereal)
Necrotic (Shadow)
Radiant (Fey)
Weapon: Bludgeon, Pierce, Slash (Material)

Poison (Body)
Psychic (Soul)

I'm very much about using hybrid 5e + 2e + fill in the blanks cosmology, so I'd still have Negative Quasi-Elemental (Dust, Salt, Ash, Vacuum) and Positive Quasi-Elemental (Lightning, Radiance, Steam, Mineral) mixed into the Elemental Planes (in 5e) that sort of still have the Para-Elemental (Magma, Ooze, Ice, Smoke). I know that sometimes Dust was Air+Earth and Steam was Fire+Water when they ignored the Quasi-Elements.

So I remember the 2e Inner Planes Book had a bunch of interesting border regions between Elemental, Para-Elemental and Quasi-Elemental planes. One that stands out in my memory was the Glowing Dunes (it might be in the 5e DMG map) between Magma and Radiance from what I remember, and it essentially described Radiation.

Like if it was something to bring over to 5e, it would inflict Radiant Damage (it doesn't have to be once a round like it often was in 2e) and probably a level exhaustion and possibly some kind an additional debilitating condition that would have to be cured with one of the Restoration spells. I think some Warlock powers in 4e did Radiant damage, with the 5e Warlock spell Sickening Radiance being a successor to those powers.

 

[SkidAce]

The 5e 2024 cosmology map omits a representation for the Positive and Negative planes.

The description is: "these two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology". "All existence" includes both positive and negative. Where the description refers to "the raw forces of life and death", I understand these forces include positive energy and negative space. So, in the moment of the Big Bang, the infinite positive energy reveals a single glimpse of itself within vast infinite negative darkness. All else − spacetime, consciousness, electromagnetic force, and matter − explode outward from this point. To the degree that something is finite, its edges are surrounded by the negative absence, allowing it to exist autonomously.

An implication that every thing includes both positive and negative, emphasizes Any ethical alignment. Life inherently orients toward Good and death toward Evil. But the power of positive life can be used for Good or Evil, and the power of negative death can be used for Good or Evil.

The lively seelie Fey are (mostly) positive, and the deathly unseelie Shadow (mostly) negative. Both are likewise Any alignment. If something exists at all, then both positive and negative are in play. The four seasons of the Material world include both positive and negative aspects.

The positive and negative planes are not "things". They are infinity and nothingness respectively. They are both "no-thing-ness". Thus there is no representation for them in the cosmology map.

True, but I brought forward those ancient creepy fortresses that sit jutting out into the negative and positive energy planes from 1st edition. Its a big campaign secret/plot what they originally were.

The only question for 5e's revised cosmos, is can you get to them through the elemental planes, or the edges of the Feywild/Shadow?

 

[Yaarel]

True, but I brought forward those ancient creepy fortresses that sit jutting out into the negative and positive energy planes from 1st edition. Its a big campaign secret/plot what they originally were.

"Jutting out into": yeah, the socalled positive plane and negative plane, is more like areas where the multiverse interacts moreso with energy or void. Analogously, the Big Bang positivity is already interacting with negativity to weave into distinctive forces and energies and matter. The Black Hole negativity is the positive matter unraveling into negative nothingness. Without spacetime, positive and negative are no-thing.

The only question for 5e's revised cosmos, is can you get to them through the elemental planes, or the edges of the Feywild/Shadow?

The 2024 DMG mentions, an upper "dome" of positive, and a lower one of negative. Presumably, this refers to respective influences. The base of these domes meet and interact equally in the Material and Elemental planes. Meanwhile the upper Feywild seems to have stronger positive influence, and the lower Shadowfell stronger negative influence.

Probably each plane of the the 2024 alignment Wheel is equally positive and negative. Albeit this is surprising considering earlier representations where Good is maximally positive and Evil is maximally negative.

Darksun has a concept of a "Positive Material Plane" and a "Negative Material Plane". Actually the original 1e cosmology map does too. But in 2024, these seem identical with the Feywild and Shadowfell, respectively. In other words, in the Material Plane proper, a Fey Crossing is especially positive, and a Shadow Crossing negative.

 

[SkidAce]

"Jutting out into": yeah, the socalled positive plane and negative plane, is more like areas where the multiverse interacts moreso with energy or void. Analogously, the Big Bang positivity is already interacting with negativity to weave into distinctive forces and energies and matter. The Black Hole negativity is the positive matter unraveling into negative nothingness. Without spacetime, positive and negative are no-thing.


The 2024 DMG mentions, an upper "dome" of positive, and a lower one of negative. Presumably, this refers to respective influences. The base of these domes meet and interact equally in the Material and Elemental planes. Meanwhile the upper Feywild seems to have stronger positive influence, and the lower Shadowfell stronger negative influence.

Probably the 2024 Wheel of alignment planes are equally positive and negative. Albeit this is surprising considering earlier representations where Good is maximally positive and Evil is maximally negative.

Darksun has a concept of a "Positive Material Plane" and a "Negative Material Plane". Actually the original 1e cosmology map does too. But in 2024, these seem identical with the Feywild and Shadowfell, respectively. In other words, in the Material Plane proper, a Fey Crossing is especially positive, and a Shadow Crossing negative.

Good words and Ideas.

Here's what I'm working with so far, although toying with the idea of moving them to "edges of Fey or Shadow".

Obelisk Towers of the Quasi-Elemental Realms - Locations

Ringing both the Positive and Negative Energy Planes are a group of scattered great towers, massive structures of the heaviest elemental metallic stone available. These towers extend into the Energy planes on thin peninsulas so narrow in some places that a normal humanoid could touch the Energy...

app.kanka.io

 

[Yaarel]

@SkidAce

Here is the ethereal part of the 2024 cosmology map.

Notice, the Ethereal Plane is inside the Astral Plane.

Within the Ethereal Plane:

The Elemental Planes form a donut. Inside the emptiness of the donut is the Material Plane. Above it is a more positive version of the Material Plane, namely the material Feywild. Below it is a more negative version of the Material Plane, the material Shadowfell.

Thus the "dome" of positive energy, refers to the upper half of the donut, and part of the Material disk, and the Feywild disk is extraordinarily positive.

Oppositely the dome of negative void, refers to the lower half of the donut, and part of the Material disk, and the Shadowfell disk is extraordinarily negative.

The Material Plane is equally positive and negative, tho there can be Crossings that have more affinity with one or the other.


So with regard to the Obelisk Towers: there can easily be positive ones and negative ones anywhere in the Elemental Planes. The Fey ones would tend to only be positive, and the Shadow ones only negative. The Material Plane can have both, tho either Obelisk might relate to a Fey Crossing or Shadow Crossing.

 

[SkidAce]

@SkidAce

Here is the ethereal part of the 2024 cosmology map.

View attachment 419843

Notice, the Ethereal Plane is inside the Astral Plane.

Within the Ethereal Plane:

The Elemental Planes form a donut. Inside the emptiness of the donut is the Material Plane. Above it is a more positive version of the Material Plane, namely the material Feywild. Below it is a more negative version of the Material Plane, the material Shadowfell.

Thus the "dome" of positive energy, refers to the upper half of the donut, and part of the Material disk, and the Feywild disk is extraordinarily positive.

Oppositely the dome of negative void, refers to the lower half of the donut, and part of the Material disk, and the Shadowfell disk is extraordinarily negative.


So with regard to the Obelisk Towers: there can easily be positive ones and negative ones anywhere in the Elemental Planes. The Fey ones would tend to only be positive, and the Shadow ones only negative. The Material Plane can have both, tho either Obelisk might relate to a Fey Crossing or Shadow Crossing.

Somehow I've missed that picture...where's it from?