Fiend Folio new Face/Reach help me out here.

[Enceladus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fiend Folio new Face/Reach help me out here.

That 10' space "is the monster." If you can attack any of those four squares, you're attacking the monster.

It's possible to move through that area in certain cases, but you usually can't just stroll in with normal movement. (In general, you need to have your own space all to yourself; that's just the minimum elbow room you need for fighting effectively.)

With a successful Tumble check, you can move through the area and come out the other side. Ditto if the monster lets you past.

If you successfully grapple the monster, you move into its area, and wind up sharing one of its squares. (Visualize a little kid trying to wrestle an adult.) There are some special rules about what you can and can't do while grappling.

Thanks Auraseer and KReynolds, just making sure my thoughts on this were in line. Helps a lot.

 

[Dimwhit]

Here's my somewhat related question, since it's no mystery 3.5 is going to follow this same rule:

Suppose my Druid wildshapes into a Brown bear, which in 3.0 takes up a 5'x10' area. Now it will be 10'x10'. Is this just for combat? Does that mean in 3.5 I will no longer be able to walk down 5' hallways or go through standard doorways? What if there's a combat in a 5' wide hallway? Would a brown bear be screwed?

Don't think if these questions are even answerable now, but I'm getting a little worried about possible limitations to my Druid in 3.5.

 

[AuraSeer]

You'll still be able to go through a standard doorway, just like a human can walk through a 2' doorway. Your Face is the area you control in combat, not the actual physical size of your body (unless you're a gelatinous cube).

AFAICT there currently are no rules for what happens if you enter combat in an area smaller than your Face. Hopefully it'll be clarified in the new PHB.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I think you won't be able to effectively fight in that cramped space, since your face is to big for the hallway.

You may get penalties to attack and AC, or might even lose your dex bonus to AC, cause you can't manoeuvre in such a tight spot

 

[Li Shenron]

Does anybody know what happens to very long creatures? I don't remember if there are creatures in the MM with face something like 5x20 or even more, but what about Frost Worms or giant snakes and the like? It's difficult to think they are always coiled when fighting, and if they are uncoiled they obviously can't cover such a large square at all times.

 

[Gez]

Well, now, a worm 5 ft. wide and 200 ft. long is 200 ft. x 200 ft. Quite simple.

Furthermore, now a horse (formerly 5 ft. x 10 ft.) can no longer move through a mine corridor (as real world horses did) nor pass through the door of its box.

I agree it's simpler now, and more consistent with the rules that consider there is no facing; but for big creatures it will pose new problems.

 

[Lol Roflmao]

Well, now, a worm 5 ft. wide and 200 ft. long is 200 ft. x 200 ft. Quite simple.

Furthermore, now a horse (formerly 5 ft. x 10 ft.) can no longer move through a mine corridor (as real world horses did) nor pass through the door of its box.

I agree it's simpler now, and more consistent with the rules that consider there is no facing; but for big creatures it will pose new problems.

....while a huge snake fills a space 30 feet long and 5 feet wide (unless it coils itself into a circle, in which case it would take up a 15-foot-square area.)

So I'm thinking a horse or snake straightened out could move through a 5' corridor OK.

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't think the problem is when moving through a narrow space. Even before, a human slip into a 1ft passage if needed, the 5x5 face was said to be used only in combat, to represent the fact that such space is needed to fight at your best (even if I have never seen official rulings about fighting in more narrow spaces, I am sure you can, as long as the DM comes up with some house rules penalties).

With the old facing rules, you could have a 5x200 snake (with reach 5) bite-attack anyone close to it, no matter on which side, and still "occupy" a 5x200 area. It makes more sense now that a larger area is considered occupied, since it needs to turn somehow its face to the target, but I suppose that there is going to be some specific ruling about how to move into the whole 200x200 area, I don't think it should be forbidden completely, or restricted to PCs with the Tumble skill (which would still be useful to avoid the AoO) - unless Tumble becomes untrained of course.

 

[Enceladus]

If we use the example in the book of a 5x30 snake 15' coiled. Then a 5x200' worm would be 100 ft coiled.


I would think.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I don't think the problem is when moving through a narrow space. Even before, a human slip into a 1ft passage if needed, the 5x5 face was said to be used only in combat, to represent the fact that such space is needed to fight at your best
... It makes more sense now that a larger area is considered occupied, since it needs to turn somehow its face to the target, but I suppose that there is going to be some specific ruling about how to move into the ..area, I don't think it should be forbidden completely, or restricted to PCs with the Tumble skill (which would still be useful to avoid the AoO) - unless Tumble becomes untrained of course.

Having seen a couple of pissed off horses, I can tell you that they like to whirl around a lot if for no other reason than simple rotation will get them immediately out of reach from a lot of other creatures and the secondary reason of most creatures not wanting to get hit by a half ton of spinning horse. Dogs and cats are similar, but they tend to do more twisting than spinning.

Then from my childhood days in a land where I watched water mocassins hunt overly curious cats, I can tell you that a snake generally coil into a fighting stance about a quarter it's total length. The coil gives them the ability to strike at any point along the coil with good strength and keeps mobility while also cutting down on exposure. (approximate exposed surface of a coiled snake = 1/2 the exposed surface of a stretched out snake)

So, anything currently Long that is rigid will get a square box roughly on par with length. Long flexible (snakes, dragons, worms) will probably go to a box between 1/4 - 1/2 length (Snakes at the 1/4, dragons more to 1/2).