Fight Defensive & Withdraw options

[bento]

I'm DMing a mass-combat situation and one of the players, a 2nd level Samurai, became surrounded by a band of 7 goblins during melee combat.

He's already made it through one round of being flanked but won't survive another. The game ended before we could start another round so we're both trying to figure out his possible actions.

Reading in the SRD 3.5 and PHB it says that if he stays he can either fight defensively as a standard action or a full action (which gives him -4 on attacks and +2 AC) , or he can claim total defense (+4 to AC but no attack for 1 round).

Question 1: Why is there no difference between the bonuses and penalties when "fighting defensively" as a standard action and a full action?

If he looks at his option to withdraw, the rules aren't clear to me:

Withdrawing from melee combat is a full-round action. When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. (Invisible enemies still get attacks of opportunity against you, and you can’t withdraw from combat if you’re blinded.) You can’t take a 5-foot step during the same round in which you withdraw.
If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal.​

Question 2: The square this player starts out in IS threatened isn't it? The third sentance begs the question - when would someone withdraw from combat when they aren't already engaged in melee combat?

Does this mean he cannot withdraw if he's surrounded? The rule isn't clear about this.

If I had never read this rule I would allow him to step out of the circle but he would have to take AoO from every threatening square until he's out of reach from every combatant. He can fight defensively while he does this. Is this his best option?

Thanks!

 

[irdeggman]

Withdrawing from melee combat is a full-round action. When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. (Invisible enemies still get attacks of opportunity against you, and you can’t withdraw from combat if you’re blinded.) You can’t take a 5-foot step during the same round in which you withdraw.
If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal.​

Question 2: The square this player starts out in IS threatened isn't it? The third sentance begs the question - when would someone withdraw from combat when they aren't already engaged in melee combat?

Does this mean he cannot withdraw if he's surrounded? The rule isn't clear about this.

If I had never read this rule I would allow him to step out of the circle but he would have to take AoO from every threatening square until he's out of reach from every combatant. He can fight defensively while he does this. Is this his best option?

Thanks!

Because using the withdrawl option the square he is starting in is not considered threatened - i.e., so he can move out of it without taking AoO becasue he is withdrawing.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Question 1: Why is there no difference between the bonuses and penalties when "fighting defensively" as a standard action and a full action?

Effectively, there are two situations when you can fight defensively - when you take the attack action, and when you take the full attack action. In both cases, the modifiers are the same; it's just two different times that you can do the same thing.

Question 2: The square this player starts out in IS threatened isn't it? The third sentance begs the question - when would someone withdraw from combat when they aren't already engaged in melee combat?

It is threatened, but it's considered not to be for the purposes of that movement.

If I'm adjacent to an orc with a greataxe, I can withdraw; the first square I leave is considered to be not threatened (even though the orc would normally threaten it), so no AoO for leaving it; the second square I leave is ten feet from the orc, so it's not threatened either.

If I'm adjacent to an ogre, I can withdraw; the first square I leave is considered to be not threatened (even though the ogre would normally threaten it), so no AoO for leaving it; the second square I leave is ten feet from the ogre, which is within his natural reach. Since the withdraw action only protects me in the first square, I take an AoO from the ogre when I leave the second square.

If I'm flanked by orcs on two sides, I won't be able to withdraw without provoking an AoO from at least one of them, because even though my first square is considered not threatened, there is no square I can move to that is not threatened by at least one of them, so when I leave the second square, I take an AoO.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Does this mean he cannot withdraw if he's surrounded? The rule isn't clear about this.

He's only (!) surrounded by 7 goblins, so he has one square in which to retreat. If he withdraws, then the square he's currently in is not considered threatened and he can move to 'safety' via the one open square. When he leaves the next, and any subsequent squares, those may be considered threatened. The usefulness of this is that he will provoke far fewer attacks of opportunity (probably only from two goblins) and a feat like mobility will help tremendously.

 

[Nail]

Considering he's only 2nd level, I wouldn't bank on him having the Mobility feat....unless he's human and took Dodge too.

The Samurai doesn't have any companions or friends? Give us more details!!!

 

[Infiniti2000]

Hey, maybe bento just didn't bother mentioning the 15 levels in monk.

 

[Nail]

....which would be reeeeeeally helpful about now.

Heck, just 4 levels of any class, really. Is that too much to ask?