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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8966340" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>Well, yeah. I mean, I doubt anyone would play a game if they weren't having fun. But it's an aspect of the game that isn't fun for me. I mean, as a player, sure, I could avoid certain classes/subclasses. It bothers me, because I don't think that's right, but it is what it is, and it's not unique to this version of D&D- every version has had questionable options.</p><p></p><p>But when I DM, it really bugs me to know that my players will pick a class because it seems cool to them, and then somewhere down the road wonder why they are having difficulties other players are not, or why another player is allowed to outshine them at something their character is supposedly good at. They start to struggle, they wonder if they're doing something wrong, and eventually I have to tell them "I'm sorry, but that's just how your class was built".</p><p></p><p>I've tried to combat this, by telling players in advance that some options aren't as good as they seem, but I generally get strange looks or even pushback. One AL player even told me I was wrong, because "there's no way they'd make a subclass bad".</p><p></p><p>And you know, a lot of times, even "bad" choices can shine, in certain situations. It's not like the game doesn't work at all. But why it isn't better is what bothers me. There's no reason the Eldritch Knight isn't even a half-caster, but it's perfectly fine to hand out Extra Attack to arcane casters, for example.</p><p></p><p>Or why the Cleric, which has always been designed as a Tier 2 melee class, doesn't get Extra Attack (save for the limited version from the War Domain).</p><p></p><p>The playtest Ranger got sorted into the skilled class category, given Expertise, and it's magic buffed, while retaining it's combat abilities, and some people are still saying "man, I hope the Fighter stays basic".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8966340, member: 6877472"] Well, yeah. I mean, I doubt anyone would play a game if they weren't having fun. But it's an aspect of the game that isn't fun for me. I mean, as a player, sure, I could avoid certain classes/subclasses. It bothers me, because I don't think that's right, but it is what it is, and it's not unique to this version of D&D- every version has had questionable options. But when I DM, it really bugs me to know that my players will pick a class because it seems cool to them, and then somewhere down the road wonder why they are having difficulties other players are not, or why another player is allowed to outshine them at something their character is supposedly good at. They start to struggle, they wonder if they're doing something wrong, and eventually I have to tell them "I'm sorry, but that's just how your class was built". I've tried to combat this, by telling players in advance that some options aren't as good as they seem, but I generally get strange looks or even pushback. One AL player even told me I was wrong, because "there's no way they'd make a subclass bad". And you know, a lot of times, even "bad" choices can shine, in certain situations. It's not like the game doesn't work at all. But why it isn't better is what bothers me. There's no reason the Eldritch Knight isn't even a half-caster, but it's perfectly fine to hand out Extra Attack to arcane casters, for example. Or why the Cleric, which has always been designed as a Tier 2 melee class, doesn't get Extra Attack (save for the limited version from the War Domain). The playtest Ranger got sorted into the skilled class category, given Expertise, and it's magic buffed, while retaining it's combat abilities, and some people are still saying "man, I hope the Fighter stays basic". [/QUOTE]
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