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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 8974980" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>A 1e wizard could charm person a guard to be their personal lacky for a week or more. And that's just at level 1. 1e was full of magic scrolls and wands even if you ignore how mid level MUs were slinging around fireballs and more. So yes, if the argument is "casters get to do all these spectacular things and fighters can't", then that existed since day 1. And it wasn't a design problem back then of fighters not being able to do anything other than "mother may I." Again, that is a player issue, not a design issue otherwise everyone would have had the same design issues, and we didn't. Why? Because...</p><p></p><p>...if it was an issue, you'd think the letters section would be full of people complaining about it. Or they would have made a correction when 2e came out if it was such a big deal. It didn't happen. Players being beholden to DM's whim at an unreasonable level <strong>is </strong>a player issue. It's a bad DM. Nothing mechanically is causing that issue. Like I said above, most of those "cool moves' were done using an ability check, or attack roll, or some other existing rule as a guideline. We didn't need a specific power if a broader rules guideline could cover it, and lack of a specific power does not mean you couldn't do anything. To say that your PC couldn't do X if they didn't have a specific ability or power for it is flat out false. Do you think that no one for decades ever had their fighters do cool stuff in the game? You literally have people in this thread telling you that a mechanically simpler fighter allows them to do more, not less, because they weren't constrained by a tighter rule system. Are you calling them a liar?</p><p></p><p>But back to the point, no one here advocating for a simpler class is saying complex classes are bad or should be excluded, or that people who prefer complex classes have no imagination. That's a strawman. There have been folks saying the game should exclude simpler classes, however...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 8974980, member: 15700"] A 1e wizard could charm person a guard to be their personal lacky for a week or more. And that's just at level 1. 1e was full of magic scrolls and wands even if you ignore how mid level MUs were slinging around fireballs and more. So yes, if the argument is "casters get to do all these spectacular things and fighters can't", then that existed since day 1. And it wasn't a design problem back then of fighters not being able to do anything other than "mother may I." Again, that is a player issue, not a design issue otherwise everyone would have had the same design issues, and we didn't. Why? Because... ...if it was an issue, you'd think the letters section would be full of people complaining about it. Or they would have made a correction when 2e came out if it was such a big deal. It didn't happen. Players being beholden to DM's whim at an unreasonable level [B]is [/B]a player issue. It's a bad DM. Nothing mechanically is causing that issue. Like I said above, most of those "cool moves' were done using an ability check, or attack roll, or some other existing rule as a guideline. We didn't need a specific power if a broader rules guideline could cover it, and lack of a specific power does not mean you couldn't do anything. To say that your PC couldn't do X if they didn't have a specific ability or power for it is flat out false. Do you think that no one for decades ever had their fighters do cool stuff in the game? You literally have people in this thread telling you that a mechanically simpler fighter allows them to do more, not less, because they weren't constrained by a tighter rule system. Are you calling them a liar? But back to the point, no one here advocating for a simpler class is saying complex classes are bad or should be excluded, or that people who prefer complex classes have no imagination. That's a strawman. There have been folks saying the game should exclude simpler classes, however... [/QUOTE]
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