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<blockquote data-quote="Minigiant" data-source="post: 8979262" data-attributes="member: 63508"><p>The overall core issue with maneuvers is that the D&D community is so old and so big that it can' agree on what weapons combat looks like past level6/EarlyTier2.</p><p></p><p>With magic, most things are spells you can categorize the effects. With monks in martial arts, there is a normal progression of how things look in martial arts media.</p><p></p><p>But with weapons combat, there are too many genre.And everyone does agree on which on. Hence the abstraction and MMI.</p><p></p><p>Essentially you would to use branching lists instead of a global list or separate schools like TOB of A5e.</p><p></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Tier 1 Maneuvers<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighters as Trained Warrior<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are Additional Attack options</li> </ul></li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Tier 2 Maneuvers<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Elite Warrior<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are Stronger versions of Additional Attack options</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Mighty Warrior<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are displays of higher Ability scores</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Weapon Specialist<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are new Additional Attack options</li> </ul></li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Tier 3 Maneuvers<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Action Star<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are Additional Actions and Attacks</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Blessed Birth<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are expression of the specialness of the individual fighter</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Magically Armored Tank with Magic Weapons<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are Additional Applications of Magical Weapons and Armor</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Lord<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter gets Henchman</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Weaponmaster ("Eastern")<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are breaking the limitations of weapons and slightly defying reality</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Weaponmaster ("Western")<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are breaking the limitations of weapons and slightly defying the game mechanics</li> </ul></li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Tier 4 Maneuvers<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Action Star<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are Additional Actions and Attacks</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighters are Demigods<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Manuevers are superpowers born of specialness or outside forces</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Magically Armored Tank with Artifact and Legendary Weapons<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are Additional Applications of Artifact and Legendary Weapons and Armor</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Great Lord<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter gets Advanced Henchman</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Weapon Grandmaster ("Eastern")<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are breaking the limitations of weapons and openly defying reality</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter as Weapon Grandmaster ("Western")<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuvers are breaking the limitations of weapons and blatantly defying the game mechanic</li> </ul></li> </ul></li> </ol><p>Basically, before you introduce magic, runes, psionics or whatever, the Fighter is already the stand in for at least 6 different types of warrior advancements.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Minigiant, post: 8979262, member: 63508"] The overall core issue with maneuvers is that the D&D community is so old and so big that it can' agree on what weapons combat looks like past level6/EarlyTier2. With magic, most things are spells you can categorize the effects. With monks in martial arts, there is a normal progression of how things look in martial arts media. But with weapons combat, there are too many genre.And everyone does agree on which on. Hence the abstraction and MMI. Essentially you would to use branching lists instead of a global list or separate schools like TOB of A5e. [LIST=1] [*]Tier 1 Maneuvers [LIST] [*]Fighters as Trained Warrior [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are Additional Attack options [/LIST] [/LIST] [*]Tier 2 Maneuvers [LIST] [*]Fighter as Elite Warrior [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are Stronger versions of Additional Attack options [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Mighty Warrior [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are displays of higher Ability scores [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Weapon Specialist [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are new Additional Attack options [/LIST] [/LIST] [*]Tier 3 Maneuvers [LIST] [*]Fighter as Action Star [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are Additional Actions and Attacks [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Blessed Birth [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are expression of the specialness of the individual fighter [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Magically Armored Tank with Magic Weapons [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are Additional Applications of Magical Weapons and Armor [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Lord [LIST] [*]Fighter gets Henchman [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Weaponmaster ("Eastern") [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are breaking the limitations of weapons and slightly defying reality [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Weaponmaster ("Western") [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are breaking the limitations of weapons and slightly defying the game mechanics [/LIST] [/LIST] [*]Tier 4 Maneuvers [LIST] [*]Fighter as Action Star [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are Additional Actions and Attacks [/LIST] [*]Fighters are Demigods [LIST] [*]Manuevers are superpowers born of specialness or outside forces [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Magically Armored Tank with Artifact and Legendary Weapons [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are Additional Applications of Artifact and Legendary Weapons and Armor [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Great Lord [LIST] [*]Fighter gets Advanced Henchman [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Weapon Grandmaster ("Eastern") [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are breaking the limitations of weapons and openly defying reality [/LIST] [*]Fighter as Weapon Grandmaster ("Western") [LIST] [*]Maneuvers are breaking the limitations of weapons and blatantly defying the game mechanic [/LIST] [/LIST] [/LIST] Basically, before you introduce magic, runes, psionics or whatever, the Fighter is already the stand in for at least 6 different types of warrior advancements. [/QUOTE]
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