Filling out the missing dinosaurs

[Xeviat]

Speed and mobility don't affect CR by the rules except for flying monsters, which have their effective AC increased by 2 (which means their Defensive CR is increased by 1, or their total CR is increased by 0.5) if it can fly AND deal damage at range AND it's expected CR is 10 or lower. Sure, it can move around a lot, but it doesn't ignore opportunity attacks without giving up its attack and it can still be bashed with readied actions (which are as lethal as standard attacks at low levels, unless you're a TWFer).

Lets see what your changes do:

Velociraptor

Defensive CR: HP 9 (CR 1/8, low end); AC 13 (baseline) = CR 1/8
Offensive CR: Damage 5 (CR 1/4); Attack +4 (1 higher than base, +1/2 CR) = CR 1/4+

Now it's on the slightly weak end of CR 1/4; it averages to 1/4, but CR 1/8+1/2 would average to 1/4 as well. It should be fine. Pack Tactics would balance it perfectly (it raises effective Attack by +1, which would raise the offensive CR to 1/2 and thus the average to 1/4. This could use pack tactics; I know it would just be a wolf at that point (a weak wold actually), but what are you going to do?

It's actually weaker than the wolf now:

Wolf
HP 11, AC 13
Speed 40
Pack Tactics, Keen Hearing and Smell
Trained in Perception and Stealth
Bite +4 for 7 (2d4+2) damage and DC 11 Str save or prone.

Decide whether you want it to be weaker than the wolf (it is smaller) or equal to.

Raptor

Defensive CR: 52 hp (CR 1/2); AC 15 (+2 over baseline, +1 CR): CR 1
Offensive CR: Damage 13 (CR 1), Effective Attack +6 (3 above base, +1.5 CR) = CR 2+
Total CR: 1 and 2 would average to between 1 and 2. The offensive CR is slightly better than a base of 2, so this is only slightly weak for a CR 2.

The Saber-Toothed Tiger is CR 2

HP 52, AC 12
Speed 40
Trained in Perception and Stealth
Keen Smell
Pounce (charge > claw > save or prone > bite)
Base Attack: Damage 12 (claw), Attack +6; (bite 10); pounce raises the average damage by 1/3 the bonus damage (since damage is averaged over 3 rounds)

Defensive: HP 52 (CR 1/2); AC 12 (1 under base, -0.5 CR) = 1/2-
Offensive: Damage 15 (boosted by +3 from pounce; CR 2); Attack +6 (3 over, +1.5 CR) = 3+
Total: CR 1/2- averaged with 3+ falls between 1 and 2, so the Saber-Toothed Tiger is slightly weak for a CR 2, but it's offense is pretty high and it's really meant to hit hard (a potential for 25 damage in the opening attack would take out most level 2 characters, a level 2 barbarian with 14 Con only has 23 HP; a level 2 wizard with a 12 Con only has 12 HP and would die from a saber-toothed tiger's opening assault).

So, compared to the Saber-Toothed Tiger, I think your Raptor is fine. It's far more defensive (higher AC, mobility), and less offensive. It will provide for a longer, more interesting fight, with less chance of someone dying in one round.

 

[Bupp]

What about the indominus Rex??

http://www.tribality.com/2015/07/31/jurassic-worlds-indominus-rex-dd-5e-homebrew-monster/

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Speed and mobility don't affect CR by the rules except for flying monsters, which have their effective AC increased by 2 (which means their Defensive CR is increased by 1, or their total CR is increased by 0.5) if it can fly AND deal damage at range AND it's expected CR is 10 or lower.

Good point.

Velociraptor

Defensive CR: HP 9 (CR 1/8, low end); AC 13 (baseline) = CR 1/8
Offensive CR: Damage 5 (CR 1/4); Attack +4 (1 higher than base, +1/2 CR) = CR 1/4+

Now it's on the slightly weak end of CR 1/4; it averages to 1/4, but CR 1/8+1/2 would average to 1/4 as well. It should be fine.

Sounds about right.

So, compared to the Saber-Toothed Tiger, I think your Raptor is fine. It's far more defensive (higher AC, mobility), and less offensive. It will provide for a longer, more interesting fight, with less chance of someone dying in one round.

OK, thanks! I think I'll leave these two where they are now, then.

And thank you for working through the math - now I understand how to use the DMG guidelines for offensive/defensive CRs.

 

[Cleon]

I noticed a distinct lack of 'raptors in the 5E MM. Here are two, one 'realistic' and one Jurassic Park-style.

I apologize for being late to the party, but the database-restoral Enworld had this week led to me noticing this thread.

The conversions look fine mechanically although the Jurassic Park version seems a little weak for a 5th edition CR 2. I might be off on that since I have very little experience with the latest edition. Anyhow, CRs are a broad band in the game so I think it does fall within the range of CR 2.

I do feel the JP version could do with a little jazzing up though not necessarily something that increases its lethality. Maybe some sort of bluff-based skill or ability to help them lure or decoy victims into an ambush? After all, they set up ambushed in two or the three original films. That would likely be too nasty in combination with their Lethal Blur ability, alas.

In closing, I'll mention Sam Stockdale posted a 5E take of an eagle-sized "raptor" last year you might like to check out: [5E] Small velociraptor-type creature NEED HELP.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I have a feeling that we'll see some updated dinosaurs in VGtM, as the dinosaurs of Chult have been a relatively important part of the setting since its inception.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Yeah, but Pounce is an existing ability some monsters have, and I didn't want to either give this creature that (with the ability to make an extra attack in the same round) or reuse the name.

I could call it Leaping Slash or something though.

If you'll notice the way they have designed monsters, they actually do reuse the same names and features anywhere they can. They only make it different if it actually needs to be different.

So you need to ask yourself, "Do I want it to look like something WotC would make, or do I want it to look different?"