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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5810877" data-attributes="member: 2011">I suspect that our Champions were closer than I might have indicated. Dr Destroyer and Mechanon are epic villains with powers well beyond the PCs, even a group of PCs. This became more and more prominent as each version of the game came out (we took out the 2E or 3E version of Dr Destroyer on Destruga the first time out, but it was an epic battle). The earlier versions of these NPCs were meant to be defeatable with extreme effort and luck, the latter versions, not so much. These villains were like N+5 level encounters in 4E when they first came out, more like N+8 later on.But, it's a superhero game. If Dr Destroyer wins, he usually captures the PCs and mind controls them or sends them to an alternate universe to never bother him again, or some such. If the Dr Destroyer in your Champions games is killing the PCs, the it's a pretty gritty superhero game and not four color.In Champions, it's not usually a TPK with actual PC death unless it is a dark campaign. Granted, 4E can have TPKs because it isn't exactly the same genre, but the effect is similar (not identical). One doesn't fear for the PC's life in either of these two game systems as a general rule, one because of the genre and mechanics, the other because of the mechanics which tends to lean away from the standard more gritty than a superhero's game D&amp;D genre.4E is the Four Color version of D&amp;D which doesn't (without house rules) allow for a Dark version.One note on Champions: People sometimes have issues with different versions of Champions, but nowhere near the magnitude of D&amp;D. It's usually minor points here or there, not issues with a major portion of the edition. The feel stayed the same. Each version of Champions stayed well within the genre and the vast majority of players didn't really have edition wars. The same cannot be said of 3E or 4E D&amp;D.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5810877, member: 2011"] I suspect that our Champions were closer than I might have indicated. Dr Destroyer and Mechanon are epic villains with powers well beyond the PCs, even a group of PCs. This became more and more prominent as each version of the game came out (we took out the 2E or 3E version of Dr Destroyer on Destruga the first time out, but it was an epic battle). The earlier versions of these NPCs were meant to be defeatable with extreme effort and luck, the latter versions, not so much. These villains were like N+5 level encounters in 4E when they first came out, more like N+8 later on. But, it's a superhero game. If Dr Destroyer wins, he usually captures the PCs and mind controls them or sends them to an alternate universe to never bother him again, or some such. If the Dr Destroyer in your Champions games is killing the PCs, the it's a pretty gritty superhero game and not four color. In Champions, it's not usually a TPK with actual PC death unless it is a dark campaign. Granted, 4E can have TPKs because it isn't exactly the same genre, but the effect is similar (not identical). One doesn't fear for the PC's life in either of these two game systems as a general rule, one because of the genre and mechanics, the other because of the mechanics which tends to lean away from the standard more gritty than a superhero's game D&D genre. 4E is the Four Color version of D&D which doesn't (without house rules) allow for a Dark version. One note on Champions: People sometimes have issues with different versions of Champions, but nowhere near the magnitude of D&D. It's usually minor points here or there, not issues with a major portion of the edition. The feel stayed the same. Each version of Champions stayed well within the genre and the vast majority of players didn't really have edition wars. The same cannot be said of 3E or 4E D&D. [/QUOTE]

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