D&D 5E Finally switching my campaign from 4th to 5th Edition.

Again this "you the DM let it happen, so it's your fault" shaming.

Then dear Banana please explain how to run, say, the recent official adventure Out of the Abyss.

It features travel times measured in weeks. Its guidelines result in zero, one or two encounters per day, roughly half of which is interesting terrain only (no creature interaction).

It also features lots of mini dungeons that have many encounters 1 after the other yeah?

No-one is saying 'only every stick to the 6-8 encounter Adventuring day'. Like I said, aim for around 50 percent of the time. Build it into your adventures (with the occasional longer AD, and the occasional single encounter AD).

For the above adventure (or one similar to it, where you mostly only get the one or two encounters per day max) I would simply use the 'longer rest' variant from the DMG (possibly switching to the shorter rest variant in more densely packed areas of the module).

The truth is that LOTS and LOTS of D&D scenarios, official or otherwise, map incredibly poorly to this X encounters a day expectation. The DMG guidelines are tailor-made to the "standard" dungeon delving experience.

If that's not what your adventure offers, you're SOL.

Thats not true at all. The DMG also offers rest variants that cater for just such campaigns.
 

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Azurewraith

Explorer
I find the biggest problem with this rest/recharge issue is to me it is impossible to enforce x encounters a rest are you really going to tell your players they can't rest? Because they didnt do x encounters it seems off to me or what if having multiple encounters is just bad for story. I feel all abilities should be long rest based charges then it eliminates the balance issue and the 24hour long rest limit applies to stop abuse.
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Again this "you the DM let it happen, so it's your fault" shaming.

"Shaming"? Who said anyone should be ashamed? I was describing something and a consequence of that something. There is no pride or shame involved.

Then dear Banana please explain how to run, say, the recent official adventure Out of the Abyss.

It features travel times measured in weeks. Its guidelines result in zero, one or two encounters per day, roughly half of which is interesting terrain only (no creature interaction).

I dunno. I don't have the module. If there's not a "full day's encounter" worth of XP in between the traveling times, it could very well be that they intended for it to be pretty easy for a party to blow through. Certainly it sounds like most of the encounters on the way aren't meant to be a significant threat (which is appropriate for travel encounters when you just want a bit of texture to the area and not for it to be a big deal).

The truth is that LOTS and LOTS of D&D scenarios, official or otherwise, map incredibly poorly to this X encounters a day expectation. The DMG guidelines are tailor-made to the "standard" dungeon delving experience.

If that's not what your adventure offers, you're SOL.

SOL is a particularly hostile way to describe it.

Rest-recovered resources will make big effects on encounters until they're used up. Multiple encounters in a day are "standard," and if you want to deviate from that, that'll be the effect. Whether that's something that ruins someone's imaginary elf game isn't really a question I was concerned with answering.
 

I find the biggest problem with this rest/recharge issue is to me it is impossible to enforce x encounters a rest are you really going to tell your players they can't rest?

You dont have to tell your players anything. Time your adventures (either with a reward for completing them by time X or a penalty/ mission failure for failing to do so). They know in advance how long they have, and will naturally pace themselves accordingly.

Do this for about 50 percent of your adventures, and the players will fall into the same pattern for many of the rest where you dont (they never know if the monster youre throwing at them is really a 1 encounter AD, or the start of a longer one and will police themselves to your rest/encounter meta).

You routinely throw single encounter AD's at them - they will be reaching for the nova button on round 1 of encounter 1. You'll react by inreasing the difficulty of those single encounters by adding more deadly monsters, thus necessitating the very nova taciics youre trying to avoid.

You now have a game of rocket tag, and class balance is out the window.

Time your adventures. Use 'random' encounters if they rest. Enforce consequences for the 5 minute adventuring day (mission failure, no payment, reactive BBEGs that throw encoutners at them as they try to rest etc). Get the players accustomed to half a dozen encounters of medium-hard difficulty before they get a long rest. They'll fall into line. The first time you do it, they steamroll the first encounter, and then be forced to resort to cantrips for the remaining five or so encounters. That should get the message through.

Sixish encounters. Two short rests after every 2 or so encounters. Trust me; the game balances best around this point.

Because they didnt do x encounters it seems off to me or what if having multiple encounters is just bad for story. I feel all abilities should be long rest based charges then it eliminates the balance issue and the 24hour long rest limit applies to stop abuse.

If adventuring days featuring only 0-2 encounters on average is what you are looking for, and you want to maintain class balance and encounter balance, use the longer rest variant in the DMG (short rests = 1 day, long rest = 1 week).

If you do so I suggest having exhaustion recover on a short rest (overnight).
 
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CapnZapp

Legend
"Shaming"? Who said anyone should be ashamed? I was describing something and a consequence of that something. There is no pride or shame involved.
And I am saying it can be interpreted that way.

Let me start over:

It is a thankless "job" if you say it is the DMs responsibility to make the heroes have 6-8 encounters a day.

In fact, I say it isn't the DMs fault the heroes does not get 6-8 encounters a day. It is the rules that fail to provide her with enough support.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Multiple encounters in a day are "standard," and if you want to deviate from that, that'll be the effect.
Sigh.

Again this "I want to deviate".

I'm trying to explain to you that I (and legions of other DMs) don't want to deviate from anything.

It's a natural conseqence of the rigid framework that empowers the adventurers to regain their powers pretty much whenever they want.

And pretty much any adventure that isn't a time-constrained dungeon breaks the expectations. Not only is this without consequence in the ruleset, it's almost as if you refuse to acknowledge that this happens over and over again!
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
And I am saying it can be interpreted that way.

Let me start over:

It is a thankless "job" if you say it is the DMs responsibility to make the heroes have 6-8 encounters a day.

In fact, I say it isn't the DMs fault the heroes does not get 6-8 encounters a day. It is the rules that fail to provide her with enough support.

I find that daily/encounter XP budgets and stated guidelines are "enough" support. The game tells you what to expect, and then lets you do what you want as a DM. There's room for MORE support, but more support would tend to curtail DM flexibility, and not every DM cares if the PC's kind of steamroll a lot of of the encounters, so while I'd welcome more ideas to make the pacing easier (and would use many of them myself!), I don't fault the game for not making ideas like that part of the RAW. Because I find that daily/encounter XP budgets and stated guidelines are enough support for me.

Sigh.
..
it's almost as if you refuse to acknowledge that this happens over and over again!
You might want to tone down the assumption of ill intent, here. I'm just some dork on a D&D message board, I'm not after your lucky charms or anything.
 
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It is a thankless "job" if you say it is the DMs responsibility to make the heroes have 6-8 encounters a day.

As a DM its your responsibility to make sure the players are having fun, getting challenging encounters and so forth.

That includes maintaining mechanical balance, ensuring all players get a chance to shine and that no-one hogs the limelight, using the CR and XP budgeting system, spending time designing encoutners and adventures and so forth.

In fact, I say it isn't the DMs fault the heroes does not get 6-8 encounters a day. It is the rules that fail to provide her with enough support.

What radditional rules support do you need exactly to enforce a longer AD, or a different encounter paradigm that the DMG doesnt give you?
 

Azurewraith

Explorer
You dont have to tell your players anything. Time your adventures (either with a reward for completing them by time X or a penalty/ mission failure for failing to do so). They know in advance how long they have, and will naturally pace themselves accordingly..

My issue with this is that if 50% of your adventures become time based they lose the feel of being rushed and hard pressed to "just another day at the office" also it could just be me but I prefer to have more subtle penalties(for lack of a better word) taking to long etc. If I'm throwing a explicit time restriction I want it to be a race and a frantic one the sort of ill stay here and hold the line you guys go affair.

I just want to put it out there that I'm not knocking yours or anyone's play style. I know things can seem overly aggressive in text form.
 

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