D&D 5E Find the Path. What? Why is this a 6th level spell?

[Pauper]

The spells (or classes, or races, or whatever) in the PHB do NOT necessarily represent what is broadly a part of any particular world.

I think this also depends on the particular world you're using -- if, for example, you're basing your campaign world on Greyhawk, then it makes perfect sense for the high priest of Celestian to be both very high-level, because that's how Greyhawk traditionally works, and also have Find the Path prepared, since that spell fits very well with Celestian's portfolio.

And it feels like a lot of folks are focusing on the limited number of 6th level spell slots possessed by PC class casters and forgetting that casters are not limited in the same way in the number of 6th level spells they can prepare -- a caster might well prepare a spell she has no reason to assume she's going to cast, just because the utility of the spell when the circumstances are right is so good that the downside of not having it (or having to wait until after a long rest to get it) is worth the prep slot.

Neither of these points really have much to do with the question of 'is 5E Find the Path weak compared to other editions', which I agree with. But since you can't actually use any of the older edition spells in 5E, that seems about as useful to me as arguing about how 'weak' Shock is in Magic the Gathering because you have to cast it for 1R instead of using Lightning Bolt which only costs R it only deals 2 damage instead of Lightning Bolt's 3 damage -- if you're in an environment where Shock is legal and Lightning Bolt isn't, then the argument is technically true but practically irrelevant.

--
Pauper

 

[Stalker0]

Probably the same reason Glibness is a Level 8 spell, which is not a good one.

At least Glibness:

• Has a solid duration of 1 hour (though considering Mind Blank at the same level a 24 hour duration I do not think would be out there for 8th level).
• No concentration!
• Is used for all charisma checks (not just lies anymore).
• Still bypass all means of lie detection. You can walk into the High Court of Mechanus and lie your pants off. Look an Angle right in the eyes and tell them what you really don't think about them, etc.

I still think 8th level is steep but this spell at least has some meat, and for a social heavy high level game this would see some good use. I think its still way better than Find the Path

 

[AtomicPope]

I can only think of TWO times Find the Path was ever used, and both were in my campaign. Once, it was an NPC who was leading the PCs to a hidden shrine of the Forgotten Lizard God on a forest world (Spelljammer). The other time it was the PCs using a scroll of Find the Path they discovered in the plundered vaults of Emirikol to lead them to the tomb of a Master Vampire. Both had very heavy roleplaying requirements that needed to be met before the spell could work. The first use of the spell was to serve as a plot device. The second required a lot of detective work and took two sessions to find a something to lead them to the tomb.

Edit: in retrospect, Find the Path should be a 3rd or 4th level Bard, Druid, and Ranger spell. The fluff and mechanics are perfect for Rangers yet the spell level is too high. As it stands now, I see little use for Find the Path other than a plot device.

 

[Immoralkickass]

At least Glibness:

• Has a solid duration of 1 hour
• No concentration!
• Is used for all charisma checks (not just lies anymore).
• Still bypass all means of lie detection. You can walk into the High Court of Mechanus and lie your pants off. Look an Angle right in the eyes and tell them what you really don't think about them, etc.

I still think 8th level is steep but this spell at least has some meat, and for a social heavy high level game this would see some good use. I think its still way better than Find the Path

That meat is rotten though. 1 hour duration is basically same as Skill Empowerment and Enhanced Ability.

No concentration... not a big advantage, since its not going to be a combat encounter.

Used for all charisma checks... Same as the above 2 spells mentioned, except they can be cast on others, while Glibness is Self only. What a joke.

Beating lie detection is not really something to talk about on a Level 8 spell. At that tier of play, its quite likely you will be standing in an Antimagic field than Zone of Truth.

 

[Stalker0]

That meat is rotten though. 1 hour duration is basically same as Skill Empowerment and Enhanced Ability.

No concentration... not a big advantage, since its not going to be a combat encounter.

Except it allows you stack it with either Skill Empowerment or Enhance Ability or Foresight or any other various buff spells. Concentration is sooooo common with 5e spells that are worth a damn, so any spell that doesn't instantly goes to the top of the pile for consideration.

Again, I agree that its shouldn't be 8th....but its probably higher than many think it should be, as it has some features that are exceptional rare for 5e type spells.

 

[Maxperson]

That meat is rotten though. 1 hour duration is basically same as Skill Empowerment and Enhanced Ability.

No concentration... not a big advantage, since its not going to be a combat encounter.

As has been noted, it stacks with the other spells and can stack because it is not concentration, though I probably wouldn't bother. It will also be cast in some combats and used to negotiate an end to the fight and/or surrenders. The lack of concentration will keep the spell from being wasted. It also means that other concentration spells can be cast while you have it on, which is pretty nice.

Used for all charisma checks... Same as the above 2 spells mentioned, except they can be cast on others, while Glibness is Self only. What a joke.

Self cast only is a joke? Who is the BARD going to cast it on? The barbarian? The fighter? It's the bard who has a 20 charisma by that level, proficiency in charisma skills, and expertise. +5 for Cha and +10 for proficiency = auto rolls of 30. Why bother with any other skill spells or casting it on someone who will do worse?

Beating lie detection is not really something to talk about on a Level 8 spell. At that tier of play, its quite likely you will be standing in an Antimagic field than Zone of Truth.

Antimagic zones won't just be laying around ready to be used whenever you want to cast that Glibness. The vast majority of the time, you will be able to cast it and be slinging rolls of 30 around.