Fire Mountain Games - 5 years since funding - communication thread

[kevin_video]

... does he work for Paizo? If not, why did this happen?

Paizo has a problem with defamation regardless of whether or not the person is actually guilty or not. They don't want any kind of political issues, whether actual politics or gaming politics, on the forums. It might make them look bad. Companies like looking completely neutral on subjects. Taking sides can cost them money.
[MENTION=6901101]Scott Christian[/MENTION] --He really should step up, and he should be banned, but Kickstarter likes money too much, and Gary gives it to them regularly. I can only imagine how much he's dropped on that site over the past seven years.

 

[Scott Christian]

Paizo has a problem with defamation regardless of whether or not the person is actually guilty or not. They don't want any kind of political issues, whether actual politics or gaming politics, on the forums. It might make them look bad. Companies like looking completely neutral on subjects. Taking sides can cost them money.

[MENTION=6901101]Scott Christian[/MENTION] --He really should step up, and he should be banned, but Kickstarter likes money too much, and Gary gives it to them regularly. I can only imagine how much he's dropped on that site over the past seven years.

Yes, and you're right, if he's bringing in money, they'll keep him around. Sad though. Such a great site for so many young and old startups; just another good intentioned idea being corrupted.

 

[kevin_video]

No argument here on that one.

Hey, everyone. Out of curiosity, who's both a backer and an American? I was notified yesterday that we might actually have a lawyer willing to back us up on this one, who's in the New York area. It's not 100% for sure though, as so far it's just a consultation, but we'd need someone to be available for the lawyer to contact afterwards to go full throttle into the fight.

 

[Erichmc]

I’m a US backer in Oregon (same state as Gary...), and I’m happy to help with a lawsuit for whatever good that might do. I have no clue about how to go about the lawsuit, but I could be a contact or witness/aggrieved party.

 

[kevin_video]

I’m a US backer in Oregon (same state as Gary...), and I’m happy to help with a lawsuit for whatever good that might do. I have no clue about how to go about the lawsuit, but I could be a contact or witness/aggrieved party.

Thankfully you don't have to know how to go about the lawsuit. Another person has already made contact with a lawyer. We're just waiting to hear back on what our options are. We need a US backer to be the go-to for communications, and being an aggrieved party is going to be part of a major asset. Unfortunately, I'm not the person that made contact with the lawyer so my info's spotty at best. However, I can forward the info to the person that we do have someone willing to help. I'll keep you apprised of what I learn. With it being July 4th soon, there might be a delay before we can go ahead with things. But, we've waited this long, right?
[MENTION=6901101]Scott Christian[/MENTION] -- Sadly you're not wrong. I want to write adventures and have them published. The problem now is that people don't overly care about that any more. And with KS being what it is, as well as what Gary did to us, everyone has the bitter taste left in their mouth and hesitant. People like me are in an extremely bad position. On one hand, you've got the work and the notoriety, but publishers aren't willing to take a chance on written adventures because they don't sell well. On the other, you've got a site like Kickstarter that can make everyone's dream come true, but there's no real repercussions if you take everyone's money and run. There's no publisher to keep you honest. I've brought it up before, and even had a poll on adventures paths/modules that I'd love to do up, and am very happy that so many people decided to vote on the specific theme. Unfortunately, they all said the same thing in the comments--it can't be Pathfinder, it has to be published by a legitimate publishing company with a great reputation, and I'd need to be 1/3 complete before I even started it. While I can absolutely cover the last two, I only know Pathfinder. Most people go to 5e for their games now, and the publishers I work with at the moment only do Pathfinder, Starfinder, Traveler, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Fate, and 13th Age. Even my own friends are doing Savage Worlds, Star Wars RPG, HARN, Shadow Run,and 5e.

 

[kevin_video]

Just noticed that unlike Paizo, SuckerPuncher's post about Gary being a con man wasn't removed from EN World's Throne of Night thread.

 

[Henry]

Just noticed that unlike Paizo, SuckerPuncher's post about Gary being a con man wasn't removed from EN World's Throne of Night thread.

Also note it can be a case of how a post is worded, too; I never saw the original, but if it had anything extremely defamatory or libelous in it, Paizo might have removed it for other reasons than just saying, “he defrauded a bunch of people on Kickstarter.”

I have no connection either to Paizo, FMG, or Kickstarter (or ENWorld any more for that matter) — just giving Paizo the benefit of the doubt due to past experience.

 

[kevin_video]

Also note it can be a case of how a post is worded, too; I never saw the original, but if it had anything extremely defamatory or libelous in it, Paizo might have removed it for other reasons than just saying, “he defrauded a bunch of people on Kickstarter.”

I have no connection either to Paizo, FMG, or Kickstarter (or ENWorld any more for that matter) — just giving Paizo the benefit of the doubt due to past experience.

What I'm noting is this is your first time responding in the thread and this specific post is the one you quote and reply to, as well as noting that you have no connection to the companies. Note that at the top of this page (5) I already mentioned what you said. That Paizo has issues with defamation. And yes, it was more than just saying that.

Here's the link to the exact quote. http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?328688-Fire-Mountain-Games-Throne-of-Night/page2&p=7447104&viewfull=1#post7447104 It was copied and pasted to every FMG product page. I'll agree with another person that it was probably also seen as spam. You copy/paste the same to paragraphs eight times and someone's probably going to do something about it, defamation or not.

 

[Mirko Hess]

I've brought it up before, and even had a poll on adventures paths/modules that I'd love to do up, and am very happy that so many people decided to vote on the specific theme. Unfortunately, they all said the same thing in the comments--it can't be Pathfinder,

Really? Why the heck not? I mean.....I´m not doing Pathfinder myself these days due to the system (especially in Society) being uber-crunchy now (kinda like 3.5 was before Wizards kicked it to oblivion). But I still use Pathfinder modules and APs. I mean....converting them to 5E isn´t really THAT complicated even with the different power levels (magic) and all. Also if Pathfinder 2nd plays out (I got my doubts really with what little bits I´ve been seeing till now but who knows. August will tell) people might even come back in....

It´s a shame you won´t advance with yer AP really.

As for kickstarter: well there are still modules being pushed there and I for one even do back one from time to time. Though admittedly I now refrain from backing for printed matter and just go with the pdfs for 10 or 15 bucks. McBride really soured my on putting a big amount of money into a kickstarter project (unless there´s a BIG producer behind it who I know will come through (been backing TORG Eternity for example or Symbaroum and Shadows of Esteren).

 

[Ovinomancer]

What I'm noting is this is your first time responding in the thread and this specific post is the one you quote and reply to, as well as noting that you have no connection to the companies. Note that at the top of this page (5) I already mentioned what you said. That Paizo has issues with defamation. And yes, it was more than just saying that.

Here's the link to the exact quote. http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?328688-Fire-Mountain-Games-Throne-of-Night/page2&p=7447104&viewfull=1#post7447104 It was copied and pasted to every FMG product page. I'll agree with another person that it was probably also seen as spam. You copy/paste the same to paragraphs eight times and someone's probably going to do something about it, defamation or not.

No, Paizo doesn't have a defamation issue. US law says that a platform provider is not liable for what a commentor posts on their platform. It's not legal avoidance driving Paizo's editing, but more likely other posters reporting rule violations which then get modded.