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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest 7037866" data-source="post: 9582782">Yes, each spell-level for CO assumes there is a enough targets for maximum bounces.However, if you have fewer targets, you can use the spell-level for the number of targets, and realize the expected damage would be slightly higher due to the greater chance for a bounce, but it gets you more or less in the ballpark.For example:CO 6th-level @ 80% is 3.14 targets for 96.23 damage. Divide to get the damage / target (30.6). Then just look at the number of targets, say 4, and look up the expected targets for a CO of THAT spell level: 2.39 (4th-level @ 80%). Multiply the new expected targets (2.39) by the calculated damage / target (30.6) for an expected damage of 73.05.So, if you used a CO 6th-level @ 80% but only 4 targets, your damage will be about 73 (or a bit more) instead of the 96ish maximum if you had 7 targets available.It is far from perfect, but it is a quickish way to compare a higher level CO with fewer targets.Well, the fireball from the necklace has save DC 15. With the +6 DEX mod, the quicklings needed a 9 or better (60% chance success). IIRC the fireballs targeted 4, 4, and 3 quicklings. Expected "hits" would be 1.6, 1.6, and 1.2. Theoretically, the three fireballs should have taken out 4 quicklings--1 or 2, 2 or 1, and then 1.Admittedly, I rolled fairly lucky since one time all four quicklings made their save for 0 damage... However, even half-damage on a failed save is enough to kill them at only 10 hp. Two fireballs managed to kill 1 quickling each, the last none, and he stopped doing it.But, let's look at the numbers for CO at 3rd-level (as fireball) with +7 attack (based on DC 15 save) vs. AC 16. That attack needs 9 or better (also 60% oddly enough), but with disadvantage, so just a 36% attack success. So, a single casting of CO would only have roughly a 1/3 chance to hit (damage would be sufficient to kill, though), and with three castings you would get 1, maybe 1.5 quicklings.So, CO would actually be worse in that sense (you are correct), however avoids the tank "nuking" himself in the process... Also, if someone buffed his attacks via bless or whatever, CO would improve of course. I don't rely on that, personally, but it is a viable consideration.I believe that in real use if you're maximumizng options like granting advantage, etc. or targeting lower AC targets often (like ogres).Well, you mention seeking spell, and I can throw in transmuted spell (which my own Sorcerer uses for his "fireballs" <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ).So, in such situations, I don't view fire resistance as an issue if you are granted advantage.True. For myself I haven't but I am not using 2024 rules at all and I won't ever use them--I'd stop playing D&D first.Anyway, I think CO can certainly be useful, and if you "maximize" for it even more so (like anything you maximize for...). Overall, in general terms of pure damage potential I think FB and CL yield better results and I HAVE seein those used in abundance very successfully...</blockquote>

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