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Message: <blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 9646527" data-attributes="member: 9789">I really like this thread because it's a great reminder that some of us grognards need to check our assumptions when it comes to 5.5.One of the biggest surprises of 5.5 that is emerging is how different it actually is in practice from 5.0 - especially outside of tier 1. Besides the straight-up buff in power that characters received - which they countered with a similar buff in monster HP/damage - players were given more options overall, typically in the form of complexity. This boosted the strategic depth of play, but a side effect is that we seem to be back to 3.5-levels of (possibly unintended?) interactions, especially at higher levels where so many strategic options are interacting. This can lead to relatively big power spikes in very specific circumstances. And the drunken kiwi has a great point: player skill has become a very important factor in creating those circumstances (especially due to the complexity) - which means generalized theory-crafting has become less useful, especially outside of tier 1!And Fireball vs. Chromatic Orb is a good example. A level 5 player might think, "8d6 save with half damage minimum vs. 5d8 attack roll where I can miss for zero against 3 targets? No contest!" And in most tier 1 situations that is true. But that set of core assumptions can now be altered drastically, especially later on: and it's worth revisiting the spell using those new assumptions.As Zard said: probably during tier 3 (and definitely by tier 4), attack roll misses just don't have to happen any more. My opinion is that baseline at that point should be 99% chance to hit, not 65%. (There are many reasons why this is true, but that's another thread.) Meanwhile, save DCs and enemy saves can be affected, but not to the same degree. Monsters' baseline 65% chance to fail a save is still probably closer to an ~80% chance. Players also have more options for re-rolling damage dice. And 5.5 Chromatic Orb is perfectly situated to benefit from the combination of those strategic advantages. Casting 6th level Chromatic Orb vs Fireball against 5 targets is a much different choice - one where Chromatic Orb can often be the superior choice - although it takes chewing through a lot of complexity to understand why. And importantly: disregarding the baseline assumptions of 5.0 and 5.5 tier 1 play.I'm not making judgements here, nor am I saying Chromatic Orb is overpowered. Just that Zard has a good point, and it's worth DMs noting that tier 3 and 4 play in 5.5 is turning out to be less backward compatible.</blockquote>

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