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*Dungeons & Dragons
Fireball/Lightning Bolt vs Chromatic Orb?
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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 9666510" data-attributes="member: 9789"><p>So what are the details? Here's where I am at:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Elven Sorcerer<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Innate Sorcery (level 1) to give yourself advantage on all attack rolls for spells for 1 min, 2+/day (or +1 DC)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Metamagic (level 2) - Empowered for rerolling damage, and Seeking for misses</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Draconic sub (level 3), maybe lightning, +HP, +AC, Chromatic Orb for free</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><s>Fey-Touched feat (level 4) for +1 CHA and Hex</s> (I messed this up big time, Hex doesn't apply to all targets)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Elven Accuracy (level 4) - effectively makes advantage 3d20</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Draconic (level 6) gives +CHA damage to lightning spells, resist lightning</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+2 CHA (level 8), for 20 CHA</li> </ul><p><span style="font-size: 15px"><strong>So at level 9, let's compare using your single 5th level spell slot against 5 targets.</strong></span></p><p></p><p><strong>Pre-cast Innate Sorcery</strong>, then <strong>Chromatic Orb</strong>.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+9 to hit and advantage on each roll, with Seeking spell to help with any misses (1 in 8000 chance to critically miss x5)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">7d8+CHA lightning per hit = average 36.5 damage</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">max of 5 targets if you can keep getting doubles on 7 dice, which you have a 98% chance of doing (and a reroll for the 2%)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">14.2% chance of crits (3d20) for +31.5 average damage per hit, so roughly 41 average with crits</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>x5 = ~205 total average damage</strong> before misses</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Assuming a rough average of 17 AC for CR-appropriate enemies, that means hitting about 95.7% of the time on 3d20 - without Seeking spell! Adding that in bumps it up to ~98.5%. It's hard to calculate average damage since any miss negates the possibility of future rolls, but a very rough average would be <strong>197</strong>, and the true average is probably lower.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">minimum damage is 0!</li> </ul><p>Or: pre-cast Innate Sorcery (+1 DC), then one <strong>Fireball </strong>(10d6+5 = <strong>40 avg</strong> per target, <strong>200 on 5 targets</strong>) or <strong>Cone of Cold</strong> (8d8+5 = <strong>41 avg, 205</strong> on 5)</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">similar per target damage, but both of which are subject to saves (assuming DC 18 with Innate Sorcery)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Assuming a rough average of +3 on Dex saves for CR-appropriate enemies, that means ~25% chance for saving for half, or 87.5% total damage, for <strong>175 </strong>on Fireball and <strong>~179</strong> on Cone of Cold.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">minimum damage is still 1/2 of the maximum!</li> </ul><p>(Edit: I completely left out Empower for Fireball, which makes a big difference - something like 20% more damage! That means FB is more like 220 on 5 targets, and 192.5 with average saves. This puts both spells back within range of each other.)</p><p></p><p>Compared together, I feel like Chromatic Orb pulls out ahead, but only because of Elven Accuracy, Seeking spell, and Innate Sorcery. Guaranteed advantage PLUS a third chance to roll if you miss gives a huge hit rate, and a 4th chance after that is insane. (Seeking says you can use it even if you've used a different metamagic, which might mean it can only be used once; I am unsure.) Even if Seeking can only be used once, that's still ~96% chance to hit 5 times, and over 14% chance to crit each time, which save-spells cannot do.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, you're virtually guaranteed to bounce: this is even more likely than hitting, which I didn't expect, and Empowered spell may be wasted as the chance is already so high. The odds that you can get the full damage are really quite good, better than I suspect people realized, and they are much better than the full damage with save spells, even against fewer targets! AND Chromatic Orb is like a free Careful spell.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 9666510, member: 9789"] So what are the details? Here's where I am at: [LIST] [*]Elven Sorcerer [LIST] [*]Innate Sorcery (level 1) to give yourself advantage on all attack rolls for spells for 1 min, 2+/day (or +1 DC) [*]Metamagic (level 2) - Empowered for rerolling damage, and Seeking for misses [/LIST] [*]Draconic sub (level 3), maybe lightning, +HP, +AC, Chromatic Orb for free [*][S]Fey-Touched feat (level 4) for +1 CHA and Hex[/S] (I messed this up big time, Hex doesn't apply to all targets) [*]Elven Accuracy (level 4) - effectively makes advantage 3d20 [*]Draconic (level 6) gives +CHA damage to lightning spells, resist lightning [*]+2 CHA (level 8), for 20 CHA [/LIST] [SIZE=4][B]So at level 9, let's compare using your single 5th level spell slot against 5 targets.[/B][/SIZE] [B]Pre-cast Innate Sorcery[/B], then [B]Chromatic Orb[/B]. [LIST] [*]+9 to hit and advantage on each roll, with Seeking spell to help with any misses (1 in 8000 chance to critically miss x5) [*]7d8+CHA lightning per hit = average 36.5 damage [*]max of 5 targets if you can keep getting doubles on 7 dice, which you have a 98% chance of doing (and a reroll for the 2%) [*]14.2% chance of crits (3d20) for +31.5 average damage per hit, so roughly 41 average with crits [*][B]x5 = ~205 total average damage[/B] before misses [*]Assuming a rough average of 17 AC for CR-appropriate enemies, that means hitting about 95.7% of the time on 3d20 - without Seeking spell! Adding that in bumps it up to ~98.5%. It's hard to calculate average damage since any miss negates the possibility of future rolls, but a very rough average would be [B]197[/B], and the true average is probably lower. [*]minimum damage is 0! [/LIST] Or: pre-cast Innate Sorcery (+1 DC), then one [B]Fireball [/B](10d6+5 = [B]40 avg[/B] per target, [B]200 on 5 targets[/B]) or [B]Cone of Cold[/B] (8d8+5 = [B]41 avg, 205[/B] on 5) [LIST] [*]similar per target damage, but both of which are subject to saves (assuming DC 18 with Innate Sorcery) [*]Assuming a rough average of +3 on Dex saves for CR-appropriate enemies, that means ~25% chance for saving for half, or 87.5% total damage, for [B]175 [/B]on Fireball and [B]~179[/B] on Cone of Cold. [*]minimum damage is still 1/2 of the maximum! [/LIST] (Edit: I completely left out Empower for Fireball, which makes a big difference - something like 20% more damage! That means FB is more like 220 on 5 targets, and 192.5 with average saves. This puts both spells back within range of each other.) Compared together, I feel like Chromatic Orb pulls out ahead, but only because of Elven Accuracy, Seeking spell, and Innate Sorcery. Guaranteed advantage PLUS a third chance to roll if you miss gives a huge hit rate, and a 4th chance after that is insane. (Seeking says you can use it even if you've used a different metamagic, which might mean it can only be used once; I am unsure.) Even if Seeking can only be used once, that's still ~96% chance to hit 5 times, and over 14% chance to crit each time, which save-spells cannot do. Meanwhile, you're virtually guaranteed to bounce: this is even more likely than hitting, which I didn't expect, and Empowered spell may be wasted as the chance is already so high. The odds that you can get the full damage are really quite good, better than I suspect people realized, and they are much better than the full damage with save spells, even against fewer targets! AND Chromatic Orb is like a free Careful spell. [/QUOTE]
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