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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Fireball/Lightning Bolt vs Chromatic Orb?
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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 9666850" data-attributes="member: 9789"><p>Chain lightning vs. 6th level Chromatic Orb on the <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/fireball-lightning-bolt-vs-chromatic-orb.711337/post-9666510" target="_blank">elven draconic sorcerer</a>!</p><p></p><p>Assumptions:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">level 11 elven draconic sorcerer with lightning focus, elven accuracy feat, 20 CHA</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Empowered, and either Seeking or Heightened metamagic</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Innate Sorcery is pre-cast (either advantage or +1 DC)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4 targets! (CL max)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">AC rough average for CR appropriate enemies: roughly 17</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dex saves for roughly CR appropriate enemies: +3 (this is low actually)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bless is running: +2.5 to hit</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic items give +2 to hit and DCs</li> </ul><p></p><p>To hit: +13 with 3d20 for 99.6% chance to hit each time, rounding to 100% with Seeking</p><p>Chance to bounce: 99.7%, rounds to 100% with Empower</p><p>Crit miss: with Seeking it's 1 in 160,000</p><p>Crit hit: 14.26%, or 18.55% with Seeking</p><p></p><p>DC: 20, with one save at disadvantage, for 20% chance / 4% for one with disadvantage</p><p></p><p><strong>Chain Lightning</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">10d8+5 = 50 average damage</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+Empowered is... about +6? I don't really know this math, we'll say 56 per target for now (update: 8.77)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Saves: 56 x .8 = 44.8, 56 x .96 = 53.8 (update: 58.77 gives 47, 56.4)</li> </ul><p>Total 4 targets: ~188 (197.4)</p><p></p><p><strong>Chromatic Orb </strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">8d8+5 = 41 average</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+Empowered is not much, maybe +6 to the total? (Update: 17.5)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Crits= 14.2% chance for 77 damage, or 46.1 avg per target</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Including miss chance and no-bounce chance: less than 0.4%, maybe 1.6% overall; we'll say 45.3 avg damage?</li> </ul><p>Total 4 targets: ~187 (198.7)</p><p></p><p>This seems kind of nuts, especially since CO can go up to <s>6</s> 7 targets, which would be 45.3x7+17.5= ~334!</p><p></p><p>This trick of course is that it's just harder to make monsters fail saves than hit them. Even if every enemy had disadvantage in this scenario, they still had a 4% chance to save, which ultimately lowers your overall average - whereas bouncing and attacking with CO is basically a 100% chance, given all the modifiers you can get. I think that remains the clearest takeaway.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 9666850, member: 9789"] Chain lightning vs. 6th level Chromatic Orb on the [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/fireball-lightning-bolt-vs-chromatic-orb.711337/post-9666510']elven draconic sorcerer[/URL]! Assumptions: [LIST] [*]level 11 elven draconic sorcerer with lightning focus, elven accuracy feat, 20 CHA [*]Empowered, and either Seeking or Heightened metamagic [*]Innate Sorcery is pre-cast (either advantage or +1 DC) [*]4 targets! (CL max) [*]AC rough average for CR appropriate enemies: roughly 17 [*]Dex saves for roughly CR appropriate enemies: +3 (this is low actually) [*]Bless is running: +2.5 to hit [*]Magic items give +2 to hit and DCs [/LIST] To hit: +13 with 3d20 for 99.6% chance to hit each time, rounding to 100% with Seeking Chance to bounce: 99.7%, rounds to 100% with Empower Crit miss: with Seeking it's 1 in 160,000 Crit hit: 14.26%, or 18.55% with Seeking DC: 20, with one save at disadvantage, for 20% chance / 4% for one with disadvantage [B]Chain Lightning[/B] [LIST] [*]10d8+5 = 50 average damage [*]+Empowered is... about +6? I don't really know this math, we'll say 56 per target for now (update: 8.77) [*]Saves: 56 x .8 = 44.8, 56 x .96 = 53.8 (update: 58.77 gives 47, 56.4) [/LIST] Total 4 targets: ~188 (197.4) [B]Chromatic Orb [/B] [LIST] [*]8d8+5 = 41 average [*]+Empowered is not much, maybe +6 to the total? (Update: 17.5) [*]Crits= 14.2% chance for 77 damage, or 46.1 avg per target [*]Including miss chance and no-bounce chance: less than 0.4%, maybe 1.6% overall; we'll say 45.3 avg damage? [/LIST] Total 4 targets: ~187 (198.7) This seems kind of nuts, especially since CO can go up to [S]6[/S] 7 targets, which would be 45.3x7+17.5= ~334! This trick of course is that it's just harder to make monsters fail saves than hit them. Even if every enemy had disadvantage in this scenario, they still had a 4% chance to save, which ultimately lowers your overall average - whereas bouncing and attacking with CO is basically a 100% chance, given all the modifiers you can get. I think that remains the clearest takeaway. [/QUOTE]
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