"First Edition Feel"

[BiggusGeekus]

OK, but in demonstrating your point, your example is a bit out of proportion with what Mearls and Francisca are talking about. It's very different to go from not knowing what the chief export of the town is, to it having a harbor. Seriously, having a magic shop, all kinds of out-of-character businesses, etc. would be unlikely in the first place, as the DM set it up as a back-water "filled with danger and adventure."

According to another thread, the town has an assasins' guild, freak show, and fighter school. My hypothetical regatta was over the top, but the ferris wheel came dang close to making the cut. Obviously, I was being tounge-in-cheek, but I think I'll stand by my point. The smaller details, like exports, town size, and economy, help make a setting come alive.

What they said was moving straight past extraneous details and going to the adventure, more in the style of the Lord of the Rings movies versus the Lord of the Rings books. In the movie, you don't find out that hobbits are the best rock-throwers around, nor what kinds of songs they sing at various occasions

True, but all that stuff was in there. Elves sang in elvish. Aragorn had a small knife on the outside of his scabbard that the character would use for skinning rabbits or whatever. The king of the Rohirim had etchings on the inside of his armor that the audience would never see. The extraneous details exsisted, they just never came up.

There's a time for each type of game, and a simpler setup doesn't have to be 100% realistic.

I guess what I'm getting at is that while I agree with this statement, I think it's the DM's job to decide what kind of game he's making. The guy who is envisioning Saltmarsh in his imagination before setting hands to keyboards has to do as much work as he can in both directions. No easy task. Of course, each type of DM (assuming a binary condition where only one or the other exists with no shades of gray) is going to think some of the material that doesn't suit his particular needs is "filler".

Bringing it back to topic, I think some of the better 1e modules had that. Isle of Dread and Keep on the Borderlands had lots of encounters that the party would probably never stumble on. Which I think is the best middle ground.

 

[dcas]

Waldorf could take him.

Neither could hold a candle to Thri'tard, the iconic Grell Monk.

 

[Henry]

Bringing it back to topic, I think some of the better 1e modules had that. Isle of Dread and Keep on the Borderlands had lots of encounters that the party would probably never stumble on. Which I think is the best middle ground.

By the same token, I've heard many, many gamers on the internet deride both B2 and X1 as being "totally implausible setups." Both were stellar modules when it came to evoking the feel of "humanoids raiding the human lands" and "Lost World", respectively.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

It's sad when you have to use completely bogus examples to insult a game.

It's also very pathetic that the D&D [current edition] bashers can't participate in a conversation without throwing down their edition wars gauntlet.

Quasqueton

Says the guy who started the dedition wars thread...

 

[francisca]

By the same token, I've heard many, many gamers on the internet deride both B2 and X1 as being "totally implausible setups." Both were stellar modules when it came to evoking the feel of "humanoids raiding the human lands" and "Lost World", respectively.

B2 is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Here are the capsule summaries I gave my groups, 23 years apart, as the setup for adventuring in B2:

1981: There's humanoids in them thar hills. Go kill 'em and take their stuff!

2004: Something ominous is hanging over Castellan Keep. Reports of organized bands of marauding humanoids have observed on the road, river, and in the forests at night. What is more, is that these aren't just one group, but multiple tribes and species, which by all rights, should be in conflict with each other. Storm clouds are brewing. What is going on in the Caves of Chaos?

So, in 1981, we didn't care. Let's just go kill them and take their crap. It was a fun way to play then, and still is today for a lot of people.

In 2004, the cave were used as a staging point for a humanoid army, with the different factions being kept in line by the evil clerics, the minotaur, and the ogre. The principle organizer was the evil priest in the keep, who reported to Bargle. *That is why all of these different humanoids are there.* And no, they don't get along, hence the muscle. So, the adventure/campaign became an exercise in uncovering the plot (an invasion of karameikos followed by a coup attempt by Baron von Hendriks) and hit and run strikes to weaken the force and guage their strength (and of course, take their stuff )

What is nice about B2, is that it lent itself perfectly to both kinds of play. It is the quintessential "kill;loot;repeat" module, but due to the complete lack of meta-plot, it can be plunked down anywhere, and left to the DM to weave into the cmapaign.

The difference: 23 years of life. Most of us 30-somethings still playing 1e or B/X don't play it like we did when we were 12. (not that there is anything wrong with that, anyway.)

I do see many people playing 3e that way, as well as with other styles, so it ain't the system.

 

[JohnSnow]

By the same token, I've heard many, many gamers on the internet deride both B2 and X1 as being "totally implausible setups." Both were stellar modules when it came to evoking the feel of "humanoids raiding the human lands" and "Lost World", respectively.

Ahhhhh, memories...

Having played through both of those as a youngster, they were among my favorite modules. And ones I played through with AD&D rather than the sets they were intended for.

Isle of Dread especially. And Sinister Secret of Salt Marsh ranks right up there. As do the FR modules Under Illefarn and The Sword of the Dales. Good times!

I still say feel is edition independent. We were just simpler gamers then.

 

[francisca]

Ahhhhh, memories...

Having played through both of those as a youngster, they were among my favorite modules. And ones I played through with AD&D rather than the sets they were intended for.

Isle of Dread especially. And Sinister Secret of Salt Marsh ranks right up there. As do the FR modules Under Illefarn and The Sword of the Dales. Good times!

I still say feel is edition independent. We were just simpler gamers then.

Sir, seems you and I are in the same boat.

*hands John an oar*

 

[francisca]

Says the guy who started the dedition wars thread...

Yup. And despite the troll, we may actually get a productive conversation out of this yet.

--Optimistic Spikey

 

[Kae'Yoss]

One of my friends does. He avoided 2e and dislikes 3/3.5 for the fact that it actually set up rules for all the things he felt should be done by the DM on the fly. He prefers roleplay and feels the AoO and rolls for Spot etc interfere with that.

Spot checks are bad roleplaying? So the DM just determines whether you see the assassin? Why have stats in the first place? Dice are expansive anyway, let's just get back to playing cowboys and indians. We didn't need no dice back then.

Okay, so my post count is pretty low (bordering on non-existant)

Talk no further. Your credibility at this point is also bordering on the non-existant. We just don't listen to you. Without post count, you're nothing. Go spam a little in the more obscure forums, or ask about multiple sneak attacks, PrC's and XP penalty for multiclassing, elf/orc crossbreeds, high elf/gray elf crossbreeds stats, or starting money for levels 2-20. Then come back and maybe the big boys will let you play with them.

Kae

P.S. Just kidding

 

[francisca]

Spot checks are bad roleplaying? So the DM just determines whether you see the assassin? Why have stats in the first place? Dice are expansive anyway, let's just get back to playing cowboys and indians. We didn't need no dice back then.

It was called "surpise" in 1e. At least, that's how I use it.