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<blockquote data-quote="Michael Morris" data-source="post: 2181007" data-attributes="member: 87">You haven't played under the same DM's as I have you, or under me... &lt;EG&gt;Your funeral. In my games the knock spell can set off traps - making it's usefulness dubious (I hate that spell's existance as a DM and an avid rogue fan).The last rogue I played went against the grain of combat oriented. With two fighters in the group you don't have to concentrate on whipping tail. Besides, if you want combat character why play a rogue? Play a fighter.My last rogue had stats like this...STR 7DEX 20CON 12INT 16WIS 18CHA 10I took weapon finesse at 1st level so I wouldn't completely blow chunks at combo and relied heavily on crossbow sniping (since crossbows don't care about your strength). Spot and Listen where my bread and butter, I twinked these out to +12 (+4 wis, +2 alertness, +2 tallfellow halfling bonus, 4 ranks).&nbsp; Drove the DM nuts cause he never could get the drop on the party. Open Locks, Disable Device and Search where the other highly maxed out skills.I was the eyes and ears of the party. It was fun, while other players got to shine in the combats, between combats - during the exploration - was my time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Michael Morris, post: 2181007, member: 87"] You haven't played under the same DM's as I have you, or under me... <EG> Your funeral. In my games the knock spell can set off traps - making it's usefulness dubious (I hate that spell's existance as a DM and an avid rogue fan). The last rogue I played went against the grain of combat oriented. With two fighters in the group you don't have to concentrate on whipping tail. Besides, if you want combat character why play a rogue? Play a fighter. My last rogue had stats like this... STR 7 DEX 20 CON 12 INT 16 WIS 18 CHA 10 I took weapon finesse at 1st level so I wouldn't completely blow chunks at combo and relied heavily on crossbow sniping (since crossbows don't care about your strength). Spot and Listen where my bread and butter, I twinked these out to +12 (+4 wis, +2 alertness, +2 tallfellow halfling bonus, 4 ranks). Drove the DM nuts cause he never could get the drop on the party. Open Locks, Disable Device and Search where the other highly maxed out skills. I was the eyes and ears of the party. It was fun, while other players got to shine in the combats, between combats - during the exploration - was my time. [/QUOTE]

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