First time rogue

[sabres]

I am going to play a first level rogue for the first time and am looking for ideas. The group has a wizard, druid, cleric, and two fighters. We are sticking to Core and the Complete books, anything from other sources will be ruled on by DM on an as needed basis.

What classes, feats skills, etc. should I be looking at? What's a good progression? Is there a good way of combining a bard and rogue?

Any and all thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Thanee]

There are a few nice classes for the Rogue, mostly in Complete Warrior (for a more combat-oriented Rogue) and in Complete Adventurer (for a more skill-oriented Rogue).

With those other characters, a decent Dexterity and Charisma is probably good to have, so you can fulfill the "classic" rogue stuff (traps'n'locks) plus the fast talking stuff (bluff, gather information, etc).

In combat (if you decide to go into a more martial direction), Rogues usually try to make good use of sneak attacks, which really works best in melee, if you have a flanking partner. To that end, getting more attacks is a good idea, therefore Two-Weapon Fighting is a good thing for Rogues.

Bard and Rogue? Not sure, if that works out, since especially the Bard is a class, which really is best played without any multiclassing (maybe later for some nice Bard-related PrC), but the Rogue is usually quite well-suited for multiclassing, so adding a few levels of Bard for the Bardic Music (Inspire Courage) and a few simple spells might be ok.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bad Paper]

Your party looks really archetypical, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Archetypes are good for a reason.

Try being a halfling rogue. If you have a bad stat, put it in Constitution, but don't go below 10 (or 9, and drop your 4th-level ability mod into it). Just don't get hit. Try to keep your Int high, like 14 if possible, as in the long run, skill points will trump ability modifiers.

If you take my advice (and I've never played a full-time halfling rogue, so maybe a Con of 10 is suicidal), then grab Great Fortitude. If you find the dearth of hit points problematic, you can make room for Improved Toughness as your 6th-level feat.

I imagine Thanee's advice of 2-weapon fighting is good; if you're a halfling, you get a +1 size bonus on all attacks. I find that Point Blank Shot goes well with Improved Initiative, so you can be almost guaranteed a sneak attack at the beginning of melee. If you impress your party members by dropping someone at the start of a fight, they won't grumble about the fact that you mostly stay out of harm's way.

Clearly, I am a member of the hitting-and-running rogue school, and Thanee likes the beat-the-heck-out-of-em school. Both work. If you follow Thanee's advice, you probably want a higher Con score.

 

[Thanee]

Thanee likes the beat-the-heck-out-of-em school.

Heh. Not really, I mainly meant, if the character is going to be combat-oriented, then it is probably best to look into TWF.

If not, then combat doesn't really matter, since skills are the main focus then.

Bye
Thanee

 

[EPRock]

I have always enjoyed the In your Face Rogue

Half-Orc Barbarian / Rogue, with the increased movement, as well as the full martial weapon proficiency, More of a Conan Feel.

That is for a more combat oriented one as the penalties to Int and Cha will end up being an issue, but Darkvision is also good for sneaking.

 

[Pinotage]

Thanee's advice is good advice. As a rogue with few hp and low AC, you're not suited for melee combat, particularly at low levels. Your best advantage is mobility and sneak attack. Use tumble to get around your opponents to get into a flanking position and the dodge feat is a good starting point to aim for mobility (+4 AC vs AoO while moving). Improved Initiative will help you catch your opponents flat-footed at the start of combat, thereby allowing you to sneak attack. Archery will likely be your friend in the first few levels, so get a bow and arrows, and keep shooting.

As a rogue many people decide along either archery or melee rogue (two-weapon fighting or spring attack). Whatever the choice, rogue and ranger combine quite well, since ranger grants you 'free' feats in either of those two areas.

Pinotage

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

With so much spellcasting power in the party, combining with Bard seems pointless to me. If you want to play with a couple wands or spells early in your career on pick up a single level of Cleric -- I highly recommend the Luck and Travel domains. It will cost you some skill points and delay Sneak Attack progression, but the boost to Fort & Will saves plus the domain abilities will give you some welcome robustness. Even hanging back for one round and casting a lowly Bless will keep you in good standing with the Fighters while not risking your own neck.

In the long run, you will use the superb Use Magic Device to use wands and (eventually) scrolls.

You have to decide whether you want to focus on ranged or melee attacking.

For melee you will want a good Con and probably TWF. Hang out just behind or next to a tank Fighter. With good teamwork you can slide into the flank with a 5' and finish the opponent off with a full iterative Sneak Attack. Hopefully. If you do not go with TWF, you will just Tumble for that flank. Spring Attack is also a reasonable idea.

However, if you are in melee and not going for the TWF Sneak Attack you should seriously consider playing a Scout classed character (from Complete Adventurer) or a Scout/Rogue combo.

For ranged there is a "Bluff as MEA" feat chain or Invisible Blade PrC.

You can go for mixed tactics, but when you hit ~10th level you will find that melee is too dangerous for a less than powerfully focused character unless you are blessed with a Ring of Blinking or a Wizard who will cast Improved Invisiblity on you.

 

[Thanee]

About Dodge/Mobility: I don't really see any reason to pick those feats, other than going for Spring Attack. Tumble really covers the AoOs pretty well.

Bye
Thanee

 

[two]

I don't mean this in a bad way,

but rogues tend to die a lot. Like, almost as much as monks I think.

The reasons are pretty obvious: while rogues often have a high dex, dex isn't really as good as armor. Particularly at level 1. Thus their AC is average, not great -- usually.

Rogues have a powerful ability (sneak attack) that often only works in melee. This is different from the wizard, who also often has a low AC and even lower hitpoints than a rogue. The wizard can stand back and be effective in combat. The rogue sometimes can't. Thus rogue players tend to wade into combat where they should not.

Get a high dex but don't go crazy.

Do get a high constitution.

Most of the time when a rogue dies, it's because he's run out of hit points. (not an insta-kill spell or whatever).

Go cautiously. Enter melee with care, and don't be afriad to "retreat" if necessary.

Know your limitations and strengths.

Have fun!

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

About Dodge/Mobility: I don't really see any reason to pick those feats, other than going for Spring Attack. Tumble really covers the AoOs pretty well.

Tumble covers AoOs pretty well only so long as the DC remains trivially easy (i.e., my current Fighter / Rogue can tumble past any two opponents in a round without even rolling dice, which means he could probably make it past 6 or so without difficulty).

Mobility is a *great* lifesaver, however, on those occasions when I botch a roll to Tumble through an opponent, rather than around them, at full speed.