Fixes for Spell Duration

[Derrick Reeves]

I took a look at all the 1 minute/level spells (the "run and gun" list as Monte dubbed them), and have fixes for a few to present. I'm not touching Bull's Strength, etc. with a 10ft pole, just for the record

Aid

I've always thought this was a lousy spell. It's not without its charm, but it's out-weighed by the need to heal (amongst other things). I'm inclined to suggest a 10 minutes/level duration, so that it can be left "up" for the better part of the day's hard-slog.

Bane, Bless, Doom, Entropic Shield, Magic Fang, Magic Weapon, Shillelagh

These seem like pretty straightforward low-level combat spells. I'd say that making the duration a flat 1 minute would keep the spell useful.

Enlarge and Reduce

I think these will work ok with a 1 minute duration; but I'd like to add "Improved" versions of them at a higher level with the 10 minutes/level duration (and possibly greater effects).

Improved Invisibility

This is an excessively potent spell, and knocking it down to 1 round/level would still leave it well worthwhile. At the time it turns up, this still leaves 7 rounds of sneak attack madness.

Mirror Image

I think 2 rounds/level will work fine here. That gives the full minute of protection when the spell first becomes available, but shouldn't get too silly at higher levels.

Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law

I think a 1 minute flat duration will work out on this group of spells. 1 round/level leaves low level PCs with little use for the spell.

Spell Resistance

I hate this spell. I want to cut its duration down, but I'm afraid that would make it useless. On the other hand, raising its duration would make it far too good. Bah. I'm going out on a limb here, but I think 1 round/level will still work.

There's still a number of spells I haven't got any decent ideas for. Your input, as always, is invaluable.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I took a look at all the 1 minute/level spells (the "run and gun" list as Monte dubbed them), and have fixes for a few to present. I'm not touching Bull's Strength, etc. with a 10ft pole, just for the record

Aid

I've always thought this was a lousy spell. It's not without its charm, but it's out-weighed by the need to heal (amongst other things). I'm inclined to suggest a 10 minutes/level duration, so that it can be left "up" for the better part of the day's hard-slog.

This change I definitely agree with. While you're at it, you could do the same to Blur.

BTW: the real problem with Aid is that, by the time you can cast it, it only prevents a little over half the damage that a cure light wounds would cure and doesn't put a scratch into cure moderate. So it's primarily good for the bless-effect but for one person, 1 min/level isn't good enough for a 2nd level slot.

Bane, Bless, Doom, Entropic Shield, Magic Fang, Magic Weapon, Shillelagh

These seem like pretty straightforward low-level combat spells. I'd say that making the duration a flat 1 minute would keep the spell useful.

That's probably true for all of these except Bless and possibly Entropic Shield (which would probably be balanced at 10 min/level--since it's pretty much a weakened version of blur which would be balanced at first level).

Bless would lose a fair amount of the utility it otherwise has from levels 4 or 5 through 11 (when hero's feast begins to make it irrelevant) largely because having to cast it within one minute of the end of combat would turn it into a "cast during" combat spell and its power doesn't justify choosing it over other, higher level "cast during combat" alternatives.

Bane and Doom are combat spells so their duration is largely irrelevant. Magic Fang and Magic Weapon are primarily cast to overcome DR. I don't know enough about playing a druid to know about Shillelagh.

Enlarge and Reduce

I think these will work ok with a 1 minute duration; but I'd like to add "Improved" versions of them at a higher level with the 10 minutes/level duration (and possibly greater effects).

Enlarge should probably be 10 min duration and/or be powered up in their effect. Enlarge, for instance does nothing at level one and doesn't hold a candle to bless when cast at level 5. (The +1 damage is more than cancelled out by the fact that bless gives bonusses to everyone). At one minute or one minute/level, enlarge is not worth casting.

For Reduce as a combat spell; one min or one min/level duration doesn't make much difference (although 1 min eliminates a lot of the non-combat possibilities of the spell). It's primary weakness in combat is the fort save which is the strong save of just about everything you'd toss it at. Make it a will save and it would be an excellent spell.

Improved Invisibility

This is an excessively potent spell, and knocking it down to 1 round/level would still leave it well worthwhile. At the time it turns up, this still leaves 7 rounds of sneak attack madness.

At one round/level, it would be a combat only spell. While that may be desirable from some points of view, it eliminates its potential use in short term scouting and infiltration and makes it solely a combat-buff. Myself, I don't think that would be a good idea. It might be better to make it 10 min/level but begin to disintegrate as soon as the target attacks ending 1 round/level after the first attack.

Mirror Image

I think 2 rounds/level will work fine here. That gives the full minute of protection when the spell first becomes available, but shouldn't get too silly at higher levels.

Two rounds/level would pretty much eliminate the use of this spell at high levels since it would have to be cast in combat. Really though, I don't think mirror image needs a duration limit--the images usually go away in the first combat they play a part in.

Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law

I think a 1 minute flat duration will work out on this group of spells. 1 round/level leaves low level PCs with little use for the spell.

Spell Resistance
I hate this spell. I want to cut its duration down, but I'm afraid that would make it useless. On the other hand, raising its duration would make it far too good. Bah. I'm going out on a limb here, but I think 1 round/level will still work.

I don't think that Spell Resistance would often be worth preparing if it were 1 round/level. At that duration, it would be a "cast in combat" spell. And it would only be worth casting in combat if you were facing a group of enemies all of whom derived their primary offense through spells or spell like abilities--not a situation that happens often.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Fixes for Spell Duration

At one round/level, it would be a combat only spell. While that may be desirable from some points of view, it eliminates its potential use in short term scouting and infiltration and makes it solely a combat-buff. Myself, I don't think that would be a good idea. It might be better to make it 10 min/level but begin to disintegrate as soon as the target attacks ending 1 round/level after the first attack.

For all practical purposes, improved invisibility _is_ a combat only spell. Its drawcard over regular invis is that you can stay hidden while attacking. If all you're doing is scouting, then the lower level spell does the job fine and lasts ten times longer. I say 1 rd/level is more than reasonable.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: Re: Re: Fixes for Spell Duration

Your "practical" purposes must be very different from mine. My characters often use Improved Invisibility on the scout when entering an area of suspected bad guys. By the time you can cast it, the duration is sufficient to find a group of bad guys either report back or take immediate action and then fight out the combat.

Making it one round/level would eliminate the "combat scouting" aspect. I think that's a very bad thing. Why make Arcane casters cast two spells to do the job of one?

For all practical purposes, improved invisibility _is_ a combat only spell. Its drawcard over regular invis is that you can stay hidden while attacking. If all you're doing is scouting, then the lower level spell does the job fine and lasts ten times longer. I say 1 rd/level is more than reasonable.

 

[Malin Genie]

Re: Re: Fixes for Spell Duration

For Reduce as a combat spell; one min or one min/level duration doesn't make much difference (although 1 min eliminates a lot of the non-combat possibilities of the spell). It's primary weakness in combat is the fort save which is the strong save of just about everything you'd toss it at. Make it a will save and it would be an excellent spell.

In general I agree with you but combined with Ray of Enfeeblement against something with a poor Fort save, you can knock off 1d6 +8 STR at CL 6 - enough to render people unconscious or at the very least immobile under the weight of their armour/equipment - for two 1st level spells....